House Buying Woes

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by tom

A rare non-diving rant from me, please excuse it in advance...


We are in the process of buying a new house. We got the fixtures and fittings form from the vendors yesterday.

They have indicated that when they move out, they wish to take the light switches and power sockets with them!

WTF!?!?!?

I sense trouble ahead...

Unless the people who own the house are trained qualified electricians, they might be advised to read the building regulations and check with the IEEE because it's slightly illegal for them to do that as you can't sell a house with just bare wires instead of switches and sockets since the change in regulations a couple of years ago.

They have to replace anything they remove with proper sockets and switches and have them checked and passed by an electrician.

(As Chasey says - Fit and Test).

So if they are removing their brass shite switches, they have to replace with standards approved fittings.

However, I would guess they'll take them out and never re-use them in their new house as they'll probably not match their new colour scheme!

EDIT - Found the official gubbins to do with Part P;

Building Regulations Part P, Electrical safety in dwellings - The IET

[tom]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Unless the people who own the house are trained qualified electricians, they might be advised to read the building regulations and check with the IEEE because it's slightly illegal for them to do that as you can't sell a house with just bare wires instead of switches and sockets since the change in regulations a couple of years ago.

They have to replace anything they remove with proper sockets and switches and have them checked and passed by an electrician.

(As Chasey says - Fit and Test).

So if they are removing their brass shite switches, they have to replace with standards approved fittings.

However, I would guess they'll take them out and never re-use them in their new house as they'll probably not match their new colour scheme!

EDIT - Found the official gubbins to do with Part P;

Building Regulations Part P, Electrical safety in dwellings - The IET

Thanks for that Mark - I've already read the part P documentation, but the issue I'm really interested in is:

you can't sell a house with just bare wires instead of switches and sockets since the change in regulations a couple of years ago

don't suppose you've got a reference for that have you? can't find it in the linked document, unless I'm just being thick and have missed it...

[Dave Crampton]

Tom,

Ask your Surveyor or Lawyer to find out that. Thats why your paying them the mega bucks. As for the Estate agents, I can't for the life of me figure out why we pay them mega bucks.....

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by tom

Thanks for that Mark - I've already read the part P documentation, but the issue I'm really interested in is:



don't suppose you've got a reference for that have you? can't find it in the linked document, unless I'm just being thick and have missed it...

It's in BS7671:2001 but I can't find an online link to it at the moment.

Let me have a hunt and see if I can find the specifics.

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Scuttler

Perhaps they are particularly special (gold plated with diamond switches).

Have to say, I'd be tempted to say...fine.....but they will have to pay for replacement switches and sockets and a full electrical test. That might be sufficient to shake them back to reality



Nope...at least not yet!

Not a full electrical test but a minor works certificate for each circuit worked on.

A full electrical test would have been done as part of your survey ( Well should have been done) If they are the 'chavvy brass ones' then it is reasonable that they want to take them but replace them with standard white.

failing that a threat to pull out usually works quite well in the negotiations, I loved being a first time buyer

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Bantam

It's in BS7671:2001 but I can't find an online link to it at the moment.

Let me have a hunt and see if I can find the specifics.

theres fuck all about selling houses in BS7671:2001 Amd No2 2004 and they dont specify safe isolation procedures either thats in one of the GS notes from HSE. The ESQCR doesn't help either. If the installation has been safely isolated then there is no legal redress AFAIAA.

It would need a full test if they left it switched off and then refitted outlets after a long period, the REC might also want to see a test certificate before they change the account details to show you as the customer.

Oh and as for MK faceplates , expensive crap thesedays only used as Local Authorities have been stuck in 'five monkey syndrome' for as long as I can remember. Crabtree, Ashley, Legrand are all good alternatives. as long as the outlet has the relevant BS number on it it will be fit for purpose.

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by dry suit diver

theres fuck all about selling houses in BS7671:2001 Amd No2 2004 and they dont specify safe isolation procedures either thats in one of the GS notes from HSE. The ESQCR doesn't help either. If the installation has been safely isolated then there is no legal redress AFAIAA.

Correct. There is fuck all about selling houses. But that wasn't my point...

Hypothetical situation.

Mr house vendor (who ISN'T an electrician) sells house, rips off sockets but just switches off isolators.

Section P explicitly states 'replacement of sockets don't need to be reported', however, this is removal of sockets without replacement which is alteration to supply, no? Would he not need to report this as an amendment to supply which has to be certificated?

What I'm trying to get at here is that the chap probably will just rip the sockets off the wall and leave - which would break the regs...

If he got a qualified electrician to come round, do the job and isolate the supply then that's different....

See where I'm going with this?

i.e. if he leaves bare wires himself, then that's illegal.

if he gets it professionally isolated (expensive and mad) then OK. Not illegal but a bit maddening..

If he replaces the sockets with plain white BS type approved ones then should be fine.

The other question is - if he (the vendor) replaces the sockets himself (i.e. non electrican) then does he need to get it certificated before he can sell the house?

The solicitors should pick up on this anyway.....

[laterontoday]

There are no regulations that say you cant take the wires, fuse board, socket plates etc. You can sell a house in any condition you want as long as the terms of the sale are agreed with the person buying.

Equally anyone can put the socket face plates back because its maintennace and repair not adding new circuits, Pt P doesnt apply. Alwats best to know what your doing though so you dont get the wires mixed up.

No standard house survey includes an electrical test but most will recommend one if the wiring is more than 10 years old or has been altered. Most people wont pay an electrician £150 to do an NIC inspection. Usually £150 well spent because you dont get much electrical work for £150.

[Scuttler]

Originally Posted by laterontoday

There are no regulations that say you cant take the wires, fuse board, socket plates etc. You can sell a house in any condition you want as long as the terms of the sale are agreed with the person buying..

I seem to recall when I bought my last house that there was a stipulation that anything that was screwed down, bolted or affixed in a permanent way or that required tools to remove without damaging was considered part of the house and therefore included in the purchase price. The vendor had to stipulate all things of this nature that he was removing and make good so that cosmetically, structurally and practically it was the house that had been surveyed and viewed.

[Woz]

Originally Posted by laterontoday

Equally anyone can put the socket face plates back because its maintennace and repair not adding new circuits, Pt P doesnt apply. Alwats best to know what your doing though so you dont get the wires mixed up.

How can anyone with an ounce on sense get the wires mixed up? Then again I have seen some interesting things. Like the woman who decided to stick her polestyrene ceiling tiles up with treacle. Or the bloke that wanted a "Pimp my Ride" flat screen telly on the underside of his boot lid so stuck it on with No Nails then complained that the sound from the (No Nails Filled) speakers was rubbish.