Over organised??

[JamesW]

We had a non agency club down here was going for about 3/4 years had committee and had DAN club insurance, they found out a few years after that the insurance is void because you have to affiliated to a Dive Agency or business. They tried loads of companys with no luck so the club as far as i am aware has folded, but was talk about a local dive business taking it back, but then will the dive leaders ect have to have the HSE stuff ??

[Mark Davies]

I've seen some of the 'organisation' from Yaz's club - and I have been on the receiving end of something very similar when going on a trip with another BSAC club.

Effectively a lengthy document is issued prior to the trip that tells you everything you must do. Not only where to be and when, but detailing how to travel there, what route to take, a timetable for the journey, accommodation details, facilities there, who will be sharing rooms with who, eating arrangements, what diving equipment to bring (a full and exhaustive generic check-list), buddy pairs, what clothing to pack ('bring warm clothing and a waterproof'), bring a towel, 'don't forget your toothbrush', times to get on the boat, times to get off the boat, times to take your tanks for fills, who has the first aid kit, who is first aid trained, who has the O2, who is O trained, who is responsible for travel problems, who is responsible for accommodation problems, who's doing the BBQ, who is doing the shopping, who is buying the first round . . . .

. . . . it just goes on and on. In fact, pretty much everything is proscribed short of telling you what times you are going to the toilet! On one trip Yaz was told she couldn't drive there on her own because after diving she might be tired and it wouldn't be safe for her to drive back alone! She's a highly responsible professional and a grandmother, for fuck's sake!

There's making sure a trip runs smoothly and then there's being a patronising tit treating your club members like idiotic children.

I look at the regimentation that goes into some club trips and I wonder if all that is in any way necessary then how the hell have we managed all the hundreds of YD trips over the years without killing someone? Or is simply 'Put your name on the list and be on this boat at this place at this time' actually all that's needed - and let grown adults sort the rest out for themselves?

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

.Or is simply 'Put your name on the list and be on this boat at this place at this time' actually all that's needed - and let grown adults sort the rest out for themselves?

for those who have a bit of experience, i would completely agree, mark. However, those who are new divers do need a bit more handholding. I think it is about tailoring the organisation of a trip to meet the needs and expectations fo the group.
One newly qualified diver on a club dive expected the school van to bring all his kit and basically turned up with fins/mask/snorkel because no-one had told him otherwise, and he made assuptions.

Letting those on the trip know who has the first aid kit and O2 seems common sense to me, not over organisation.

[yazzyfooty]

There was also one for Friday. Do divers really need to be told to take cylinders off boat and get them refilled? Do adults need to be told what time they can eat or shower? I am surprised bowel opening times wasnt included!

By the way this is one page of a 5 page document!

[GaryC]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

BSAC club.

Effectively a lengthy document is issued prior to the trip that tells you everything you must do. Not only where to be and when, but detailing how to travel there, what route to take, a timetable for the journey, accommodation details, facilities there, who will be sharing rooms with who, eating arrangements, what diving equipment to bring (a full and exhaustive generic check-list), buddy pairs, what clothing to pack ('bring warm clothing and a waterproof'), bring a towel, 'don't forget your toothbrush', times to get on the boat, times to get off the boat, times to take your tanks for fills, who has the first aid kit, who is first aid trained, who has the O2, who is O trained, who is responsible for travel problems, who is responsible for accommodation problems, who's doing the BBQ, who is doing the shopping, who is buying the first round . . . .

. . . . it just goes on and on. In fact, pretty much everything is proscribed short of telling you what times you are going to the toilet! On one trip Yaz was told she couldn't drive there on her own because after diving she might be tired and it wouldn't be safe for her to drive back alone! She's a highly responsible professional and a grandmother, for fuck's sake!

There's making sure a trip runs smoothly and then there's being a patronising tit treating your club members like idiotic children.

I look at the regimentation that goes into some club trips and I wonder if all that is in any way necessary then how the hell have we managed all the hundreds of YD trips over the years without killing someone? Or is simply 'Put your name on the list and be on this boat at this place at this time' actually all that's needed - and let grown adults sort the rest out for themselves?

Ok so you dont like bits of paper. I do and if I run a trip I tend to produce one. It is not a list of things you must do, it is an information pack. Mainly maps and phone numbers. Dive times if neccessary. I know that members of my club do prefer them. The only MUST I have on any of my trips and that goes for our club in general, is that if you sign for a trip then you pay for it. Whether you go or not. Where people stay or how they get there is up to them but I do arrange accomodation and if I book it then it MUST be payed for.
The only time that I would interfere with traval arangements is if it is apparent that a number of people are driving on their own. I would make suggestions that some share but only on cost grounds.

I have been doing this for a few years and I have learnt that all options should be offered, and if folk want to do there own organising then thats good. But quite alot of people want it all done for them. Also the club environment has a few folk that have never done it before and they like to go with the flow.

Gary

[Sooty Stoo]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

She's a highly responsible professional and a grandmother, for fuck's sake!

Yazz?

Responsible???????????

ROFL



That list is way too much though.

I think I would have joined the rebellion and gone to a different cafe to decompress

[yazzyfooty]

By the way, myself and one of the remaining 2 woman was delegated to do the shopping!! The person in charge of first aid is not a first aider, and the person in charge of 02 kit is novice diver who has not seen an 02 kit before.

[Mark Davies]

Originally Posted by Scubee

Letting those on the trip know who has the first aid kit and O2 seems common sense to me, not over organisation.

I didn't suggest that in itself was over organisation - just detailing everything that goes into the list. Sure, one or two things might be sensible, but the vast majority of it really isn't necessary.

And okay, to be honest someone failing to organise the club kit that they are borrowing could happen - but even that is being a bit stupid. But telling people to bring their own dive kit and even listing what it is they need? It's too much!

The problem is that people seem to be sitting down and trying to legislate for each and every occurance and every single aspect of the trip. So, if you assume that it's possible for someone on the trip to be a degenerate idiot then you conclude that you have to treat everybody like degenerate idiots - just in case. That just ends up being insulting.

Instead I think you need to accept that people have to be responsible for their own stupidity - not you. If they screw up then it's their fault and it's not the club's duty to molly-coddle them. In other words, organise the essentials for diving then leave everyone else to deal with the blatantly obvious that ought to be well within their capabilities.

[JamesW]

Originally Posted by yazzyfooty

By the way, myself and one of the remaining 2 woman was delegated to do the shopping!! The person in charge of first aid is not a first aider, and the person in charge of 02 kit is novice diver who has not seen an 02 kit before.

Looked like if something went pear shaped someone would be right in the pooh.

Should of bought all the stuff you liked and bollocks to the rest ie: beer & wine

[zepp]

I dont do ANY organising anymore...just tell members where I will be with the boat and what time I hope to get away, its up to them to be there on time. If no-one turns up then I just go off with the family and play on the ringo. I have a good time so its their loss not mine. Am I been selfish??? I have tried the other method but all plans end up in the bin and no-one gets to do anything, except me who still has to launch and recover the boat on my own!!!