What hope is there for the rest of us when the Police can't be arsed?

[clockworkdog]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

In the last 5 years virtually every inspector I've worked for (and I've had plenty) was completely obsessed with targets to the exclusion of all else. You see, in GMP we have something introduced by our Chief called The Grip Process. It is designed to make managers accountable for their areas of responsibility. In practice it has become a weekly session where they are humiliated in front of their peers if they haven't met their detection targets that week. The obvious result is that they are not interested in anything except meeting those targets for next week's Grip meeting - and there's no detection like a quick detection!

You got instances where you could tell exactly when they'd come back from their meeting as a sergeant would be on the radio calling in a couple of probationers to send them out specifically to pick up some quick ticks - cannabis street warnings or someone urinating in an alley.

Mark - I hope you don't me taking up this point with you, all be it that it is directed at Alan. Again you are blaming the vast majority of senior officers. The policy that you describe is wrong. Fortunately we don't have it in the met (yet?) but in my previous force (Essex), they did and I have seen the sort of thing you are referring to. The blame for that lies fair and square with the Chief Constable.

What I think you are missing is that because this is still largely a disciplined service, the Inspector's, Chief Inspectors and upwards etc., basically do as they are told and if you want to call it `laying down' then so be it. I think you will find that by the same yard stick, the PC's are just as guilty by going out and doing it. Therefore to blame Inspector's and above for this whilst absolving PC's of all blame is wrong. The reason the PC's get on and do it is exactly the same as why your Inspector's have dished out the orders - because they are lawful orders and to not do so is a disciplinary matter. I find it hard to believe that you flatly refuse to do what is asked of you otherwise you would not still have a job.

If you want to blame any individuals then you need to go very senior and start at about Assistant Chief Constable level and up. The main culprit of-course is the Chief Constable, coz it's their train-set. Don't just blame the poor old Inspector’s through to Chief Supers because they are no guiltier than you (excluding the odd exception!).

[Mark Davies]

Originally Posted by clockworkdog

I find it hard to believe that you flatly refuse to do what is asked of you otherwise you would not still have a job.

Actually, I do. I have had several toe-to-toe arguments with my inspectors who wanted some child charged for some pathetic little infringement just to get a detection. I find when I challenge them and put it directly to them that they are only making the demands that they are because they want figures then they tend to back down - and after that they leave me alone.

I'm not placing all the blame at the inspectors' feet. Yes, there are PCs who capitulate and gleefully run around dishing out FPNs for fun to keep their figures up. And their reasons are no different than the inspectors - they do it through fear. The inspectors are afraid of humiliation at the Grip meetings so bully their PCs, who do what they are told in fear of their livlihood because they've been threatened with losing their SPP or CRTP.

I'm entitled to CRTP but I don't claim it. Sure, that costs me £1000+ per year but I refuse to give them the opportunity to threaten to take it away from me. That's how far my principles stretch.

I just find it a shame that nobody higher up the chain seems to share the same principles and is prepared to put their neck out for something they believe in. I put more blame at the inspectors' feet because they are the ones primarily responsible for delivering the policy. They don't produce the sanction detections personally - but they are the ones putting relentless pressure on their staff.

And of course the real blame goes higher up. I took my former BCU commander to task about it regularly, I've given grief to an ACC. I've even raised it with Sir Ronnie Flannaghan. The problem is these guys believe what they are doing is improving detection rates and that's a good thing. They are too far removed from what is actually happening at street level and can't seem to understand the abuses going on. Or rather - I suspect - they are just prepared to turn a blind eye to it just as long as their figures are looking good.

You guys in your forces might be different - and I'm glad of that and can understand you being defensive. But you have to take it from me, your counterparts in GMP are almost without exception exactly as I describe. It is now the pervading culture within our force - and it stinks.

[clockworkdog]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

Actually, I do. I have had several toe-to-toe arguments with my inspectors who wanted some child charged for some pathetic little infringement just to get a detection. I find when I challenge them and put it directly to them that they are only making the demands that they are because they want figures then they tend to back down - and after that they leave me alone.

I'm not placing all the blame at the inspectors' feet. Yes, there are PCs who capitulate and gleefully run around dishing out FPNs for fun to keep their figures up. And their reasons are no different than the inspectors - they do it through fear. The inspectors are afraid of humiliation at the Grip meetings so bully their PCs, who do what they are told in fear of their livlihood because they've been threatened with losing their SPP or CRTP.

I'm entitled to CRTP but I don't claim it. Sure, that costs me £1000+ per year but I refuse to give them the opportunity to threaten to take it away from me. That's how far my principles stretch.

I just find it a shame that nobody higher up the chain seems to share the same principles and is prepared to put their neck out for something they believe in. I put more blame at the inspectors' feet because they are the ones primarily responsible for delivering the policy. They don't produce the sanction detections personally - but they are the ones putting relentless pressure on their staff.

And of course the real blame goes higher up. I took my former BCU commander to task about it regularly, I've given grief to an ACC. I've even raised it with Sir Ronnie Flannaghan. The problem is these guys believe what they are doing is improving detection rates and that's a good thing. They are too far removed from what is actually happening at street level and can't seem to understand the abuses going on. Or rather - I suspect - they are just prepared to turn a blind eye to it just as long as their figures are looking good.

You guys in your forces might be different - and I'm glad of that and can understand you being defensive. But you have to take it from me, your counterparts in GMP are almost without exception exactly as I describe. It is now the pervading culture within our force - and it stinks.

You obviously care a great deal about what you do and why you joined. I do and thankfully a high percentage of our colleagues do. I agree with your sentiments whole-heartedly about the rights and wrongs of these targets. As I said, I know that Essex follow these stupid ways and it's pathetic. There are plenty of examples on that online blog site thingy (can't remember what it's called).

You are right that the Inspector’s are doing it through fear, as are Sergeant's, PC's etc. It's much worse for the Inspector's and above as they literally get booted out of their roles if not performing. It doesn't make it right that they go along with it but arguing will just get them booted around posts (generally the crappiest ones). I firmly blame the chief at the top of the tree.

I know that in the case of Essex, people have been transferring out to other forces (the met!) in droves in the last eighteen months since he took over. I went for promotion reasons and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to push the things that I would have had to, had I have stayed in a force driven by inappropriate targets. The irony of chasing detections is that it plunged Essex down to the bottom of the `crime prevention' league table for the country.

Cheers

Andy