EU Constitution Referendum

[captainnemo]

It was Gordon Brown who said he was going to 'listen' to the people, have a government of all the talents, who claims to care about poverty, education and the NHS.

This couldn't be the same Brown whose cack-handed reforms of the banking system contributed to the first run on a bank in over a century, a tax credit system riddled with fraud and incompetence, schools that are failing pupils, hospitals that are filthy and rife with infection and Armed Forces overstretched abroad and poorly housed at home. All these things are down to the cheese-paring idiocies of Gordo the Magnificent. How thrilled Darling must have been when his first major task was to take the rap for Northern Rock before allowing the Conservatives to write his budget for him (though it should be noted that his amendments ensure that the IHT changes are nowhere near as generous as those proposed by Osborne)

The other week Brown was babbling about his vision for the country: he didn't mention that that included signing away our rights without discussion on a matter he had made a commitment to discuss. The more chances he gets to reveal the real Brown, the less attractive the man becomes.

[MarkP]

Originally Posted by captainnemo

This couldn't be the same Brown whose cack-handed reforms of the banking system contributed to the first run on a bank in over a century, a tax credit system riddled with fraud and incompetence, schools that are failing pupils, hospitals that are filthy and rife with infection and Armed Forces overstretched abroad and poorly housed at home.

Yes, I believe it could. It it's even the same Brown who has pulled off the greatest fiscal scam of the centuries (this and last) in the name of off-sheet borrowing, the PFI.

If only the general public were more interested in things that take a teensy-weeny bit of effort to understand. Instead, we seem to prefer X-Factor pap. How convenient for those commiting the future wealth of the country to their city friends.

Originally Posted by captainnemo

The other week Brown was babbling about his vision for the country: he didn't mention that that included signing away our rights without discussion on a matter he had made a commitment to discuss.

I'd still rather not have a referendum. IF one could guarantee that it would be about the issues, I'd be infavour, but referendums NEVER are. In this case, how many eligible voters would have even the faintest grasp of the issues beyond the tabloids' agenda of "NO!"?

I'm reasonably well informed. If there were a referendum I would make a substantial effort to grasp the salient points before voting, as I am unsure of many of the finer points of the issue. What percentage of the population would (a) start from a position of relative knowledge and (b) work to ensure their knowledge were adequate to make a decision?

Originally Posted by captainnemo

The more chances he gets to reveal the real Brown, the less attractive the man becomes.

Not true. He has always been this way, it's simply that people chose not to see. Strictly Celebrity Wife Dancing Factor was too interesting.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by captainnemo

.....All these things are down to the cheese-paring idiocies of Gordo the Magnificent. .....

Really?? Brown must be impressed by your view of him. One bloke has made such a fuck up of everything, amazing. Single-handedly running all the financial institutions and heading up the covert EU group of banana straighteners.

If only the PM was actually so influential in the real world (not the Daily Mail fantasy one you describe) the public might give a shit who is in power.

Chris

[captainnemo]

Actually it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that Brown is that responsible for the mentioned eff-ups.

Part of the deal cooked up by the two Bs in the Islington nosh shop was that Brown was given immense autonomy over domestic spending policy (Blair wanted to play at international statesman) and where there is a dominant figure controlling the Treasury all other departments have to accept what they are given, particularly when the PM has indicated that he will not intervene on behalf of department budget claims.

Therefore it is no exagerration to suggest that Brown is responsible for many of the problems that are coming to light now. A fortune was poured into the NHS but inept management resulted in little return from the investment, much of which was in any case just eaten up as wages.

What genius came up with the GP contract that pays them more for effectively doing less? What happened to NHS dentistry? Why is there a burgeoning obesity epidemic as well as the superbugs crisis? On schools there is a similar pattern of 'investment' that is not reflected in results.

This isn't a question of being anti-Labour, it's a question of being anti-inefficiency and the current bunch of mugs evidently couldn't run a chip shop in Govan, starting with the specimen at the top. Not properly elected by the country or even his party, believing that balance means a chip on both shoulders and deeply insecure, Brown is probably one of the worst PMs since Eden (and he was a liar and a fool)