The Demise of Personal Freedom.

[Finless]

I am outraged to hear of PM Brown's latest 'suggestion' concerning the NHS and the 'social contract' whereby you have to be considered to be 'doing your bit' to keep yourself healthy to warrant the full assistance of the NHS should/when you become ill .

Naturally smokers, drinkers and porkers are the first targets of this proposed two tier NHS system. So what is next, sports activities, for example? Will there be an ordained list of acceptable sports and if you are injured doing something different or beyond a certain level you rule yourself out of the best level of treatment?

I like a beer. I used to like loads of beer (body can't cope anymore) but I have worked and paid taxes pretty much all my working life and, thus far, have only troubled a hospital for 5 days after someone tried to stave (that sounds like I made up a past tense of the word 'stove'?) in my face with a pool cue. Should I fall foul of 'the proposed rules' am I not entitled to the better level of treatment having 'paid my whack'? I haven't troubled the education system by not having children. Why should some work shy layabout who has sired loads of children (for the wrong reasons) and lives on benefits possibly be entitled to better treatment etc etc.

Life in this country is becoming more and more closely scrutinized with surveillance cameras and the proposed National ID scheme and the amount of information that is stored about us. Every time new legislation is brought in it is rarely revoked after its aims have been achieved. Our liberties are being nibbled away piece by piece and the Nanny State and the 'blame and claim' culture is largely responsible IMO. I admire the French (or the UK's (my?) popular conception) of their national attitude because you know they will not stand for 'it' and quite plainly say "NON"!

I eagerly await the next general election and pray we get these tossers out of government and some new tossers in. Anyone who actually wants to be an MP should be banned ever becoming one.

FWIW, I think I was in favour of the House of Lords as was before the transfer to the elected career politicians option came on line. They might have been a load of inbred duffers but at least they stood up to the government of their day on occasion? Maybe their distorted (and selfish?) views of what is English/British are what I used to like about the post war Britain I grew up in.

Whilst I'm having a rant I would also like to condemn most council members (particularly in Hastings) to having their nether regions lightly rubbed with damp sand for a year for their parking charges. It is fucking outrageous that they charge for parking after we have earned money (and paid tax on it) and then bought a car (and paid tax on it) and then paid for a RFL and an MOT and fuel (and paid huge amounts of tax on it) and in addition we have to pay council tax.

AFAIAC the money taken from taxes should be spent in the UK on the tax payers and then if there is any left over (which there shouldn't because I want a tax cut) we can spend it on asylum seekers or wars or whatever else they waste our money on.

[Scubee]

We've already got a two tier system.
If you need it, you can have it.
If you want it now, you can have it now but you have to pay again.
If you can't aford to pay to have it now, you will have to wait.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Scubee

We've already got a two tier system.
If you need it, you can have it.
If you want it now, you can have it now but you have to pay again.
If you can't aford to pay to have it now, you will have to wait.

True, but the first tier is currently called 'private health care' although I suspect the lines are becoming more and more blurred where consultants are working for both systems?

[Bantam]

Problem is, Finless, the majority of the proles in this country will still vote in those who rob from their bank accounts and screw the country royally.

What does it take to make the people realise what a bunch of con artists the current government are?

Acting in our interests? I think not.
Acting in their own interests? More than likely.

Going to war when the majority of the country was against it?
Lying about the reasons for going to war in the first place?
Hiking the cost of living up beyond most people's means and then wondering why half the country is up to it's eyes in debt on credit cards?
Keeping the cost of fuel artificially high? (70p out of the 106p we pay for fuel is duty/tax)
Introducing 'nanny' laws and H&S removing our freedom of choice as human beings and then wondering why the NHS is on it's knees because the population of the UK is growing at an insane rate, yet they're closing hospitals and introducing things like ORCON standards for the ambulance service which are counter productive.

Maybe those who sit and make policy in places like the Department of Health, for example, ought to get out of their nice ivory westminster towers overlooking the London Eye for a week and see how the rest of the country actually lives?

Sorry. I'll get off my soap box. I can't help but look at the film I saw last night and think that it was a good story, but that I really think that Dystopian future is where we're directly headed

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Problem is, Finless, the majority of the proles in this country will still vote in those who rob from their bank accounts and screw the country royally.

What does it take to make the people realise what a bunch of con artists the current government are?

Acting in our interests? I think not.
Acting in their own interests? More than likely.

Going to war when the majority of the country was against it?
Lying about the reasons for going to war in the first place?
Hiking the cost of living up beyond most people's means and then wondering why half the country is up to it's eyes in debt on credit cards?
Keeping the cost of fuel artificially high? (70p out of the 106p we pay for fuel is duty/tax)
Introducing 'nanny' laws and H&S removing our freedom of choice as human beings and then wondering why the NHS is on it's knees because the population of the UK is growing at an insane rate, yet they're closing hospitals and introducing things like ORCON standards which are counter productive.

Maybe those who sit and make policy ought to get out of their ivory westminster towers for a week and see how the rest of the country actually lives?

Sorry. I'll get off my soap box. I can't help but look at the film I saw last night and think that it was a good story, but that I really think that Dystopian future is where we're directly headed

Well, Big Brother (and I don't mean that bloody awful TV program) is arriving.

Curiously enough, I wasn't opposed to the war in Iraq. Getting rid of Saddam H was a good thing.

However, the complete balls up that has been made since is a complete travesty. And, if 'they' are going to fight for the freedom of other peoples then why haven't they done something about Mugabe ............ and Myanmar (Burma?) where the generals put down the monk's peaceful protests and anywhere else where peoples are suffering?

I swear to the God that I don't think exists (but wish did) that there are too many people in the world and in too close proximity. Nature is said to abhor a vacuum but I also think it abhors over crowding and it usually resolves that issue with disease or a surfeit of predators?

Going back to my original point about personal freedoms is it just me or does it seem that the more they try to crack down the greater and more severe crime becomes? How many people were murdered today? 3? A police woman shot yesterday and 2 remaining shotgun victims today?

I should get a job writing for the Daily Mail?

[Neill]

Prats. Social contract.

It is of course extremely silly.

Consider.

Rugby Player
Scuba diver
Protitute
Drug User
Deliberate Self Harmer
HIV risky sexual behaviour.

I am absolutely not making a judgement about any of the above, nor am I comparing or grouping them but how can you single out smokers and BMI-criminals. If you happen to glance at government health advice about looking after and feeding infants you'll realise the governments view on health policy changes more frequently than fulham change managers.

You've got to laugh, such time wasting shite.

Neill

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Neill

Prats.

It is of course extremely silly.

Consider.

Rugby Player
Scuba diver
Protitute
Drug User
Deliberate Self Harmer
HIV risky sexual behaviour.

I am absolutely not making a judgement about any of the above, nor am I comparing or grouping them but how can you single out smokers and BMI-criminals.

You've got to laugh, such time wasting shite.

Neill

Protitute? Surely a prostitute must need an s for sssssssssssssssssssssssex?

[alrhem]

They are trying to bring a special tax in for motorbikers aswell.
apparently they are higher risk (being higher trained etc counts for nothing?)
Not being able to use a phone, eat an apple, drink a coffee while you are one the road counts for nothing.

So much spin is put on anything - that is if there is any truthe there to begin with!

Politicians should answer to the public because we pay their wages. I was never asked if i wanted to pay for a chauffer for an mp or his gas guzzling car or his 5000 suits...

[Finless]

Originally Posted by alrhem

They are trying to bring a special tax in for motorbikers aswell.
apparently they are higher risk (being higher trained etc counts for nothing?)
Not being able to use a phone, eat an apple, drink a coffee while you are one the road counts for nothing.

So much spin is put on anything - that is if there is any truthe there to begin with!

Politicians should answer to the public because we pay their wages. I was never asked if i wanted to pay for a chauffer for an mp or his gas guzzling car or his 5000 suits...

I'm surprised. Surely trying to remove motorcylclists off the roads would cut down on the supply of donor organs?

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Problem is, Finless, the majority of the proles in this country will still vote in those who rob from their bank accounts and screw the country royally.

Given the things that people are complaining about here, choosing the party who will maybe drop income tax by 0.1% and spend an extra £1m on the NHS isn't going to even make a dent in the things people are complaining about in this thread.

So who would you vote for? Who would do something significantly different?

If none of the current parties are doing what you want, what are you going to do to change it?

Or if you prefer, what would you do differently to the current government? Remembering that every action has consequences somewhere. So increasing NHS funding has to be paid for - who is paying? Building nuclear power plants is about far more than the environment - what are the long term implications of being dependent on Russia or Saudi for our energy? Making parking free would be lovely - but where will all the cars park? Refusing to do anything to help other nations (whether for poverty, war, environmental disasters, etc) will save us some money - but the international relations impact will be significant.

Just being realistic here. A lot of people have ideals of what they'd like to see. They are often at odds with other peoples' ideals. Look at the power debate that's going on at the minute. Some are furious that the government may be considering more nuclear power. Others are furious that a power company has been given permission to build a new coal power plant in the UK. Others are furious that the government has allowed companies to build wind turbines in beautiful areas. All of these groups would say that the government is rubbish, has they priorities wrong, don't care about the environment / energy security / international relations / wildlife / the countryside, they're wasting our tax money, claim that the public as a whole don't like the idea, and so should be thrown out and replaced. Yet when you look at it maybe 33% want nuclear, 33% want coal, and 33% want wind - whichever you do, the majority will hate it. Yet there is no option that the government can choose that will please everyone. It's tough decisions, and as with anything else it'll always upset someone.

David