Kick 'em while they're down - a psychology question ?

[hogen-deifar]

Bullies thrive on reaction, so the trick is to not give a reaction. Like Ian said, hold your head high, walk tall and walk away. They will sooner or later get bored because they don't get a reaction from you. React, by trying to put your point across or standing your ground will give them what they want and fuel their need to bully.

Jaye was being picked on by some boys when she was 5 at the after school club. She is a sensitive little thing and ended up running away crying. Sure, I gave her a hug, I'm her Mum, but the sympathy wasn't given too much. I talked to her like she was a grown up and explained that they picked on her cos she reacted. I suggested she just looked at them when they said the bad stuff, turned around and walked away. No matter how bad or sad she was feeling, don't let them see it. The following day she did that and the day after. Within about 4 days they stopped picking on her and actually wanted to play with her cos they thought she was cool.

It's happened a few times now and everytime she's been crying when I've come in from work I remind her and the next day all things are back to normal because she's not reacted.

It works. DON'T let them see your pain and hurt. That fuels them, so don't give a bully that satisfaction.

[Sixsquid]

Lots of good points like walking tall etc. I think that's good advice. Reckon you're right about the empathy thing and that it's how people chose to use that ability rather than believing empathy in itself is good.

I remember years a go a friend of mine telling me about someone getting very aggressive at her while she was queuing at an ATM. She was flustered but other than that I don't think she gave anything else away. She was a pretty confident sort. Anyway, this person really went at her, verbally, for nothing and she was quite correct when she asked me "how did they know I wasn't the sort of person to just turn around and hit them?"

I fully appreciate the batting it back type stuff but I think the real cause are the signals we give out. Anyway, thanks all.
I got thrown off YD, as I always do somewhere between 7 and 9pm, and logged back on to some very kind rep messages. Thanks for those and all the PMs

[Garf]

Bullys are simply a form of predator, and like all predators they will pick on some prey, and leave others alone. With wild animals, it tends to be the prey that appears weak or slow. There is no difference with bullys, they are tuned to the verbal and nonverbal cues that potential victims give out. Unfortunately, research shows that most children are approached by a bully at some point in their school career, and that it is often their very first reaction, those signals they give out, that single them out as a victim for the bully.

so what are these signals. Well, unfortunately they are different in every case. It can be like a scab. The bully will try several tactics until something is seen to register as being hurtful or emotionally painful. then the bully has their finger on the scab and will just pick and pick at it. This can be a nonverbal cue such as crying, flinching or casting one's eyes down away from the bully, or verbal cues such as begging, pleading, or even seemingly aggressive outbursts. unfortunately, any reaction is seen as being a success by the bully, whos is simply craving power.

Classically the victim will display some form of submissive behaviour. It is this submissive behaviour that the bully will pick up on, a form of identifiable intimidation that the bully actually learns to crave. Submissive behaviour in victims of bullying can take many forms. It may take the form of running to an authority figure, crying, becoming quiet and withdrawn, isolated, and extremely emotionally traumatised.

So how do we counsel for bullying. Well, actually its just as import to counsel the bully as it is the victim, as they have an unhealthy craving for intimidating others. However, I assume we are more interested here in the victim.

the first thing we need to do is thank the child for telling us becuase right up to that moment they have felt alone and isolated, and they need to understand that this is very much not the case. We also need to consider if adult action is required. The odd clip round the ear from a bully might not sound like a big deal, but children are capable of quite incredible acts of psychological torture which can have really dramatic and sometimes lifelong effects on the victim.

We need to remember what is feeding the bully. It is the continued submissive responsive that they are craving. Denying that response will lower the levels of bullying. In other words, difficult as it may be, finding ways of ignoring the bullying behaviour is the fastest way to put a stop to it. This means simply looking at the bully calmly and quietly, and then walking away without rushing. The bully is looking for signs of discomfort, and taking these away will take the "fun" out of bullying. any form of reaction - submissive behaviour or even a violent response, will act as positive reinforcement for the bully and the bullying will continue. So, the primary action here - ignore the bully. A child that does this should be seen as a hero his her or her parents, as it is difficult for adults to remember just how stunningly brave a child must actually be to face such psychological torment, look it in the eye, and walk away.

Just as predators pick out the weak and the old, bullys also prey on the easiest target. With children, this is often the child with few friends, easily isolated. Encouraging the child to find friends by involving them in groups and clubs will also dissaude bullys from picking on them. Any activity which leads to the chiold becoming more confident, and involving themselves in greater social interaction, is likely to be positive. So, childen should be encouraged in any form of social interaction will will minimise the situations where they find themselves alone. Such social interaction will also build the child's confidence, again making them less of a likely target for the bully.

Bullying is a habit once it is started, and like all bullying, there are patterns identifiable. for example, someone may be bullied every day as they arrive at , or leave school, and this leads the victim to become absolutely terrified of this particular situation, becuase they quickly associate it with the pain and humilation of being bullied. So, altering the routine can help break the cycle. this might involve encouraging the child to pick a different ruote home on different days, or to walk home with others wherever possible. Again, if other children can be around when the bullying situation is present, then bullying is less likely to happen. So, encourage tge child to avoid inadvertently creating simple patterns that encourage the bully to seek them out. Bullys don't pick on the people that are hard to keep track of, remember they are looking for the easy target.

If you really want to freak the bully out, encourage the child to take control of the situation. This is not as dramatic as it sounds. Simply asking the bully to repeat what they said becuase the child missed it can have amazing results. The interprets this as the child not being intimidated becuase they were not really paying attention, and will often then tone down their second attempt at bullying through a lack of courage. If any repsonse is acceptable from the victim, a simple but confident "No" will throw the bully. In fact, any action OTHER than what the bully expects will often throw them off track. They are looking for nothign more complex than a pavlovian response, so denying them that response is the most powerful action of all. It's no "fun" to bully someone who won't react or reacts in a confident manner.

OK, finally, let's breing adults back into the picture. A lot of adults freak about bullying, but think the solution is to always coach or train the child, inadvertently making the chil MORE stressed, and increasing the feeling of isolation. So, the adults job is to encourage behaviours that will do the following

• Minimise exposure to the bully
• Minimise exposure to bullying situations
• Maximise social interaction and Friendship groups
• Increase confidence
• Decrease "victim-like" behaviour.

Notice I say its the adults job to encourage behaviours that then encourage the above, and not encourage the above directly. You can't tell a child to be more confident, any more than you can tell them to be more intelligent. But you can encourage both indirectly.

Finally, don't forget about the school. Many schools now have programs for dealing with bullying, so it may be worth considering setting up a meeting there to discuss it.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone.

G

[Neill]

In a social group it is evolutionarily useful to have a hierarchy. When we are wounded within the social group we withdraw. Withdrawal is a key indicator of low mood. Crucially humans return to the social group having licked their wounds. When people withdraw in a modern sense that is shown in not going to work, avoiding friends, not doing usual activities, avoidance of activity and social contact. Not calling friends and family. Depressed people often readily accept negatives info and filter out positive info. So if you are depressed and someone doesn't call you think 'they don't like me' whereas normally you may think 'i wonder why they didn't call hope they are ok' or 'they just forgot'. This is not paranoia - it's negative filter or cognitive bias. I often explain this as grey tinted glasses as opposed to rose tinted glasses which people find easy to understand. The world is unchanged but your view of it is effected by your mood.

Because we are social animals we read each other. A socially wounded person shows the states that go with the low mood and withdrawal. Lack of confidence is evident in someones speech ( tone, rate, volume and content) and their behaviour ( good old body language - critically posture, eye contact etc.).

When you have had low mood the temptation is to remain withdrawn and avoidant. Chill out, take it easy and relax. Well only for a short while - licking the wounds. To combat how you feel you must activate yourself. Because we are evolutionaily hunter gatherers we are rewarded biochemically for activity - typically serotonin and the other brain chemicals. The best way to move on from low mood is to do more, get busy. Re-engage with friends and family, do exercise, walk, swim, hoover - whatever (sex is good). Intuitively we think when i feel better I will do x,y and z. However in reality you have to do x,y and z to feel better.

Don't ruminate on past mistakes or problems. Stop any self critical self talk. Experiment to find out if your beliefs are accurate. Gather positive data about yourself. Low mood destroys motivation so you have to drag yourself into activation whether you want to or not. Set small goals. Celebrate your success.


Go diving........... you are a fish.

Nxxx

[liamm]

Garf, i'm impressed. Theres clearly more to you than back finning and deco chat. Does this come from a counselling background? I only ask as i'm involved in managing our schools (pupil run) anti bullying council and i think theyd be interested in this if you dont mind me passing it on.

[Garf]

Originally Posted by liamm

Garf, i'm impressed. Theres clearly more to you than back finning and deco chat. Does this come from a counselling background? I only ask as i'm involved in managing our schools (pupil run) anti bullying council and i think theyd be interested in this if you dont mind me passing it on.

yip, and no problem. I still counsel rape and abuse victims on a word of mouth basis, as and when people pass on my details, but bullying always seems to be a constant with people asking me for advice. Some people might be suprised to learn that although it's children who hit the headlines, so to speak, with bullying, the frequency of adult to adult bullying is shocking in it's own right.

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by Garf

with bullying, the frequency of adult to adult bullying is shocking in it's own right.

Tell me about it. The amount of bullying in the workplace is quite shocking, and whilst many employers have a policy and process to deal with the boss that bully's his/her staff, very rarely do they know how to deal with the reverse. Believe me - it happens.

As Garf says - they find a weakness and pick the scab. A friend of mine is in this situation. Her 'weakness' is how she dealt with the death of her son in a diving accident - apparently mourning isn't in the vocabulary of some of the people she manages.

[Sixsquid]

Just to clarify, the OP queried the understanding of signals identifying a vulnerable position caused by a 'low mood' and the subsequent control of said signals to protect against those predators who read such signals and take the advantage

The OP, even the unedited one, did not use the term bullying, or depression, so, as this is not the topic I intended I'm guessing it is based on a logical and knowledgeable progression from contributors

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Sixsquid

Just to clarify, the OP queried the understanding of signals identifying a vulnerable position caused by a 'low mood' and the subsequent control of said signals to protect against those predators who read such signals and take the advantage

The OP, even the unedited one, did not use the term bullying, or depression, so, as this is not the topic I intended I'm guessing it is based on a logical and knowledgeable progression from contributors

I think the post title of "Kick 'em while they're down, followed by statements indicating that "predators push the weak around" and then asking the question what signals are given out by those whom are targeted by the "aggressors" led to a fairly logical and rational conclusion on the part of everyone who has commented on the thread. I find it fascinating that you state you did not intend to discuss bullying in the opening post when that is, in fact, precisely what you have done. Aggressors or predators that identify and then take advantage of those that display signals of potential weakness to their own advantage. Sounds like a damn fine description of bullying to me.

[SilvaFish]

And some very helpful info there too. Not a bad thing.