Swear allegiance to who ?!

[Finless]

Originally Posted by nigelH

"Cry God for Harry, England and St George!"

It always looked so much more fun then.
Let's dump these democratic aspirations, they never seem to work out, get ourselves a proper monarch and go and loot France the traditional way. With fire and the sword.

And longbows?

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by String

Royal family need guillotine though. Or selling to america who seem to love them so they may as well pay for them too.

It has been shown that the royal family are actually good for this country. They bring in a rather large amount of tourism and this far outweighs the money paid on the civil list. Not to mention the contribution to the retail trade.

don't get me wrong, i am no royalist, but hell... the queens English... the welsh only have a Prince

[Fiji Dave]

Originally Posted by String

Im not that upset with mine (other than the climate and chavs) but my country is Wales not Britain. I feel no attachment, affiliation or love of "britain" as a whole. I really don't see why Scottish cant be Scottish, Welsh be Welsh and English people be proud to be English - they are after all different cultures and races with different histories.

they can!

But it shouldn't stop them all being proud to be british too!

Like it or not they are part of a collective group of countries which are known as Great Britain. And I can't see why you think they all have to be mutually exclusive? As an Englishman I am proud to be english, but I am also proud to be British and this means I can also take pride in the hstory and achievements of my Welsh and Scottish cousins.

[MarkP]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Any one wishing to abolish the Monarchy obviously has no concept of the massive income generated by their existence. The tourists don't come hear for the weather they come for the history. They envy our Monarchy.

The Queen only has to do a state visit and political and economic barriers fall and the UK benefits.

I don't know if anybody has audited the value the Queen brings in. It might be that you're right. It has precious little to do with democracy.

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

We are a pathetically small little island with a disproportionate status in the world and this is in part due to our Monarchy.

That's shite. It's in part due to previous, rapacious monarchs who pillaged other countries to build our extraordinary wealth. It's in part due to the genius of our forefathers who were technologically able and this, coupled with some extraordinary military leadership and bravery, gave our navy the ability to overcome seemingly insuperable odds.

I'm in a strange emotional pickle here. I quite like our queen, but have trouble justifying the monarchy on an intellectual level.

[String]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Any one wishing to abolish the Monarchy obviously has no concept of the massive income generated by their existence.

They cost more than they generate factoring everything nationwide.

The tourists don't come hear for the weather they come for the history.

They dont come here to meet the queen they come here for the history. Which they can still see even if we put queenies head on a spike. The history is still there, the buildings are still there, the stories. All thats missing is a £100m/yr unelected figurehead.

The Queen only has to do a state visit and political and economic barriers fall and the UK benefits.

Sometimes- other times its a waste of money. Also the job could quite easily be achieved with an elected president or even a current prime minister. Someone who is actually answerable to someone.

Traveling the world has shown me just how lucky we are

I've noticed exactly the opposite. How backward the UK is many of its traditions and ideas and how restricted it actually is due to that.

Immigrants now have to do a citizenship exam before they are allowed PR. This will mean soon the immigrants will know more about the construction of government in this country than the indigenous population.

I dont see that as a problem - if they WANT to move here they should learn the language and understand the place. However people born here have no choice about it and fail to see why ideas should be imposed on them due to an accident of birth. The information is there IF they desire to learn it.

[String]

Originally Posted by Scubee

It has been shown that the royal family are actually good for this country. They bring in a rather large amount of tourism and this far outweighs the money paid on the civil list. Not to mention the contribution to the retail trade.

Only in those skewed surveys that fail to realise there is a difference between the history and physical remains and the actual unelected sponger in charge. Remove the sponger all the buildings and history and the tourists remain.
People dont fly all the way to england to talk to the queen - they come to see buckingham palace, tower of london etc all of which remain either way.

[MarkP]

Originally Posted by String

Only in those skewed surveys that fail to realise there is a difference between the history and physical remains and the actual unelected sponger in charge. Remove the sponger all the buildings and history and the tourists remain.
People dont fly all the way to england to talk to the queen - they come to see buckingham palace, tower of london etc all of which remain either way.

I'm not quite convinced - I think many come to watch the pomp, which might go. Could you sustain the changing of the guard without anything to guard?

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by String

Im not that upset with mine (other than the climate and chavs) but my country is Wales not Britain. I feel no attachment, affiliation or love of "britain" as a whole. I really don't see why Scottish cant be Scottish, Welsh be Welsh and English people be proud to be English - they are after all different cultures and races with different histories.

Royal family need guillotine though. Or selling to america who seem to love them so they may as well pay for them too.

There was a war, you lost it was a long time ago, get over it

Christ we live in a global economy where most people understand the need to think on a global scale if we are going to survive big issues like global warming, hunger, disease and true poverty. To achieve this we need to centralize government and get rid of petty local / reagional profiteering.

But despite this obvious need, a piss ant little corner of a piss ant little island wants autonomy????

We obviously have a long way to go


ATB

Mark

[Finless]

Originally Posted by MarkP

I don't know if anybody has audited the value the Queen brings in. It might be that you're right. It has precious little to do with democracy.



That's shite. It's in part due to previous, rapacious monarchs who pillaged other countries to build our extraordinary wealth. It's in part due to the genius of our forefathers who were technologically able and this, coupled with some extraordinary military leadership and bravery, gave our navy the ability to overcome seemingly insuperable odds.

I'm in a strange emotional pickle here. I quite like our queen, but have trouble justifying the monarchy on an intellectual level.

I know what you mean. It would sure be drab(?) without them. I'm even in favour of the House of Lords - as opposed to the house of elected people who will just support the government. Even if they were/are a load of inbred weiros at least they stuck 2 fingers up to the government now and then.

I have absolutely no faith in this government or it's ability to rule. All they seem to to do is leech money and freedom out of the populace. In order to be free we are the most watched and governed society of all time? Big Brother is already here.

Actually, I think I would prefer to keep the Monarchy and I would prefer to keep GB and the UK 'as is'.

I am not happy about the unfairness of the amounts contributed in taxes against the facilities that are now available, for example, in Scotland (health charges). It has to be the same for the whole UK.

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by String

Only in those skewed surveys that fail to realise there is a difference between the history and physical remains and the actual unelected sponger in charge. Remove the sponger all the buildings and history and the tourists remain.
People dont fly all the way to england to talk to the queen - they come to see buckingham palace, tower of london etc all of which remain either way.

Cobblers.
You ask any tourist why they go to BP/Windsor and they will tell you that they want to see one of the inhabitants. Realistically, they know they won't, but they all have that little dream.

The buildings will remain, but the traditions will go - no point changing the guard if there isn't anyone there to guard. Which would mean the loss of a few more jobs.

I am also well aware that a survey can be designed to deliver the answer you want. 'Lies, Damned lies and statistics'. You could skew a survey to show they are the best thing since sliced bread, or they are driving the economy into the ground.