Car de-icing

[MATTBIN]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]or can discuss it with the policeman - face to face.

I tried that one, but he was only 17 yrs old.
Matt

[CotoChris]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (MATTBIN @ Oct. 22 2003,17:22)]

I tried that one, but he was only 17 yrs old.
Matt

<font color='#0000FF'>What did he do, call you granpa? &nbsp;

[MATTBIN]

Nope, gave me a bollocking and let me go with 3 points. Mind you I was stomping along a bit on a virtually deserted motorway, so it was fair in the circumstances.

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Dominic @ Oct. 22 2003,16:44)]I never seem to see police officers walking around any more. They're always in the car, or at most, walking to/from their car to somewhere.

Dom,

I remember recently reading about this. There has been a trial of 'beat bobbies' in some locations. The result was to raise fear of crime. The issue was the perception that police are now only located where crime is high.

They can't win.

Adrian

[Gavin Yates]

<font color='#000F22'>For pete's sake ... you get nicked you take yer points/pay yer fine and get on with it.

Rules are made and as long as they are interpreted fairly I couldn't give a monkeys.

You get flashed for exceeding the speed limit and you get a ticket - just pay it. You knew you might get done and you have - life's unfair that way.

Police have enough to do with the assortment of scumbags they have to deal with ... and tring to get the creases out of a white hood can take ages &nbsp;

[Mark Davies]

<font color='#000080'>Thanks for that support, Gav. Exactly my sentiments.

(Though the white hood gag is hardly helpful I appreciate the humour in which it was made, and after last night's documentary I'm surprised it took so long to surface.   )

Lou,

I must try and dispel this stupid notion that issuing tickets is a &quot;revenue raiser&quot;. Do you honestly think that the bobby on the street could give a toss about Gordon Brown's looming budget deficit? On what basis do you think that this is in any way a motivator? Or do you think that David Blunkett sends memos around the forces saying, &quot;We're a bit short this month, so could you issue a few more tickets&quot;?

If you were a police officer, would you do it? So what on Earth makes you think that we do? People seem to lose sight of the fact that we are not a different species. We don't suddenly start to think differently just because we put on a uniform. We are honest, decent people EXACTLY like you. All we are doing is our job - and doing that to the best of our ability.

(Having said that, your two examples of justifiable breaking of the speed limit on motorways are absolutely valid and safer than the alternatives. It is what I would do myself, in appropriately safe circumstances. It would be a shame for you to get done in that instance, which is the failing of non-discretionary cameras. However, what is the alternative?)

[Mdemon]

Blimey, turn your back for two minutes and four pages of posts appear!

Oi, Doug - I resemble that remark! &nbsp;That should be my defence - &quot;It takes so long to build up speed I didn't want to slow down...&quot;

Dom, your advice on not signing... &nbsp;Is this valid? &nbsp;What are your thoughts Mark?

And Mark, I know a lot of coppers and have yet to meet one who even hinted at the kind of crap those pillocks were spouting on TV last night. &nbsp;I reserve my disgust for journalists who in my opinion have much more to answer for. &nbsp;Having said that, there was a bit of a result for that Daily bloke. &nbsp;I know the sort of things you come across having done some work with some of you - I've got nothing but good things to say about the lot of you so don't feel that a bunch of rookie pillocks have tainted the rest of you.

Speed cameras? &nbsp;They should be on every residential road where kids play and they should be the digital ones which keep your speed constant. &nbsp;Having a lottery of whether you get done or not is pointless - it should be EVERY time you get flashed regardless. &nbsp;When they sort the GPS/congestion charging thing you'll find this'll happen by default. &nbsp;BUT! Unless there are roadworks there shouldn't be a single camera anywhere near motorways or dual carriageways and as payback for slowing traffic down on small roads, the motorway limit should be raised on four-lane motorways with lorries and slow vehicles allowed in two lanes only. &nbsp;

By the way, when we got flashed there were two of us in the car - it was a business vehicle and we are both allowed to drive. &nbsp;Neither of us saw the flash and we're not sure who was driving. &nbsp;Should we get the photo, and what happens if we can't work out who's driving?

[Doug Parker]

Kids, horses and bicycles shouldn't be on the roads anyway.  Not until they pay something towards it like car tax payers do.  30 MPH as soon as you hit a city/village/town limits and cameras every 100 yards.  Special driving test for all you townies before you can drive in the country, no street lamps or white lines at the side of the road and you shit yourselves and hold the locals up (we're not down here on holiday with nothing better to do, we've got jobs as well you know). Caravans only allowed to be on the roads between midnight and 5 AM from May to September and no other times. Drivers to lose their licenses at 60 years of age, get the kids to take you.

[Mark Davies]

<font color='#000080'>Mdemon,

A few points to deal with there.

I'm not sure about failing to sign your s.172 Notification (i.e. &quot;You are the registered keeper of vehicle X which has committed and offence on whatever date. Who was the driver?&quot. Recent findings in Scotland rendered this part of the Road Traffic Act useless, as they found it breached human rights legislation by compelling people to incriminate themselves in an offence. Not currently the case in England.

If you fail to respond to the notice you can be banned. I guess the idea of not signing is that as you've responded you can't be prosecuted for failing to do so, but as you haven't signed it the prosecution cannot use it as an admission. It would probably work as the CPS couldn't be bothered with the effort of dealing with it. So you'd probably get away with the traffic offence that you know you had committed, and also the offence of perverting the course of justice that you're commiting in the process, making yourself a genuine criminal, rather than just a minor traffic nuisance.

In your own case, if you genuinely don't know which of you was driving ask for the photograph, expalining why you need it. They should supply it on request. If it is still inconclusive then let them know; send in passport photos of yourselves and let them decide. You'll probably find that you are treated fairly and if it is not possible to determine beyond reasonable doubt who was driving then nobody will be prosecuted.

Now, the Mark Daley documentary. I wasn't going to raise it myself, but now that it's here I might as well give my opinion.

I didn't work with him personally, but he did work on a neighbouring division and I might easily have been called to provide him with assistance. I would gladly have risked my life for him having never met him, simply because he was a colleague in trouble. We were understandably sickened when we heard about what he was doing; such a betrayal of trust is a real kick in the guts. I can only imagine how his immediate colleagues on his shift must feel.

The first thing to point out was that he found no trace of racism out on the street amongst the experienced officers on his shift. The only people he could point a finger at were those he trained with, and these , for the most part, while they were at training school. This was during the 17 weeks that are spent before even getting anywhere near working police officers.

Part of the problem is that new recruits are tainted with the same media fuelled prejudices about the police force that the rest of the general public believe. They would have thought that they were joining an organisation full of fascist, racist thugs. Desperate to fit in with and be accepted by what they percieve to be the prevailing culture they are likely to express views not genuinely their own. Whilst at training school it is rammed into them that racism is not tolerated, but they will imagine that this is just the &quot;politically correct&quot; trainers paying lip service and that it will be different out on the streets.

When they get out on the streets they learn the error of their misconceptions. They find RACISM IS NOT TOLERATED. Not by the organisation, not by their managers, but most importantly, not by their colleagues. As I mentioned in my reply to Lou above, we are normal, decent people just like you. If you are not racist why should we be just because we decide to dedicate ourselves to public service? Yet people assume that the minute we pull a uniform on we become racist thugs. We are subject to as much misplaced, stereotypical prejudice as just about anybody else.

That is why Mark Daley found no racism when he went on the streets. It simply isn't there.

However, this lovely bit of journalism (prompted by our formal leader's ill advised comments on &quot;institutional racism&quot will once again leave the general public with a negative view of the service as a whole. Adding little disclaimers like &quot;this should in no way reflect badly on the vast majority of officers that I encountered who displayed no signs of racism whatsoever&quot; and expecting that it will make it okay is stupidly niaive. We will once again all be tarred with the same brush as the handfull of idiots who barely managed to make it out onto the street.

What it can only have done is highlight that the selection procedure sometimes fails to detect racist sentiment. We do not yet practice thought control so this can be a little difficult. After all, Mark Daley managed to conceal his real intentions, so it's not impossible to hide racist views for a couple of interviews.

I don't know about Pulling, the former (yes, he's resigned) officer from North Wales (not a region particularly well known for racial tollerance - they don't even like the English!), but for those in GMP, it is highly unlikely that they would have survived their initial training period, let alone the two year probation. In some respects it is a shame that Daley's project was cut short by him being discovered. If he'd been allowed to continue he might have found that the issue was dealt with adequately in due course. He might also have come to respect the people that he was working with and thought better of his actions.

Obviously we will now have to deal with the inevitable knee jerk reaction that will be introduced to reassure the public that the problem that never existed in the first place still doesn't exist. That will mean yet more back-covering paperwork and beaurocracy, like we didn't have enough already. Yet more officers taken off the street to deal with it.

What a wonderful, public serving result from this fine piece of journalism.

The sad fact is, you have to believe that if he'd found no evidence of racism at all, after investing so much time and personal effort into it (two years of his life, remember), he'd surely make efforts to try and generate some. I think there were signs of this in the way that he was instigating many of the conversations and even goading some into making certain comments. But even so, if you accept the lot as genuine, it failed to uncover any problems amongst the rank and file officers.

It's just such a shame that the British media feel the need to constantly undermine the beleaguered efforts of dedicated officers desperately trying to make a positive difference to their communities. We despair of it, constantly. Yet, we go on.

Why do they do it? Well that brings me right back to the start of my first post. Probably because they've got a shitty on about being given a speeding ticket! Which is exactly why I never give them out and why I find the whinging about it so annoying.


(Doug, you posted while I was writing this. You are exactly on my wavelength!)

[susan]

I feel quite sorry for the Police. They bust their butts providing a service and they are continually slated by everyone, the media and individuals alike. That is until we are attacked or burgled. It must be hard to keep morale up under those circumstances. My friend is dating a copper and he has had people peeing in his letter box, and his kids were bullied at school because he is a copper! Yet they continue working in the face of adversity dealing with many violent and offensive people.

I have had contact with the police at work and they seem a perfectly nice bunch. There are always exceptions in every walk of life. I just hope that the new recruits were just that. If it were really institutional then they would still be in the force wouldn't they?