is YD turning into a DIR/GUE love in?

[Alun]

Originally Posted by Woz

And today bottomed the Rondo on air (48m) with 4 others and used...... 70 bar.

So how are you finding those new twin 30's?

[MattS]

Originally Posted by Fiona

You must be on something to post this shit.

Nope. I binned 3 attempted replies to Howard's original post. I wrote this one. Waited a bit. Read it again. Waited a bit. Thought twice about posting it as the discussion had moved onto amusing drivel. Then decided on the back of Clare indicating that touching nerves was not something she was worried about, post it and be damned. I am somewhat overwhelmed by the positive off line response.

Can you point me in the direction of the thread, I must have missed it.

That is the whole point Fiona. I can not point you to the thread, because no one was so bloody callous as to start one.

[gobfish1]

Originally Posted by Woz

And today bottomed the Rondo on air (48m) with 4 others and used...... 70 bar. Then went on a 25m scallop hunt with Digger and came up with bags and bags and bags of them. I feel slightly ill from eating too many now and we've run out of garlic and butter.

on air as it shoud be done ,, you will get 50m if you dig abit

as for scallops , when you have filled a gpo bag full and then eat them all , you never want to eat them ever again , had my fill of them a long tmie ago ,,m8

ps
did you see them dir types about on you dive ,, its abit north for them me thinks . the shandy is a we bit to strong for them that far up north ,,

[Diving Dude]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

The trouble is it is the mindset of the people who it appeals to that creates a self selecting group. They all end thinking in a similiar fashion - risk analysis, risk mitigation, invest time in skill, reasoned thought about diving and how to be good at it. Lots of people taking diving seriously but they often go about it in a different way.

At work I deal with something similiar I tend to think of some people as detail people. They like to dot the i's and cross the t's. Other people are helicopter people who don't do detail and view everything from a great height. They don't like to get into it and hate to get bogged down when they have a good idea. I end up trying to bridge the groups quite a lot and completely change my tack when talking to each audience.

Diving is similiar

And so the 'love in' continues.

One set of divers think about the detail and the rest don't do detail.

[MattS]

Originally Posted by pieater

I've missed t completely - or maybe I'm not paranoid.

I don't care if they are out to get me.

Diving internet fora (and I've spent some time researching this ) fall into 4 categories:

As far as I can see YD is like any other dive club. People come. They talk bollox. People learn it is bollox. Many leave. A few die hards persist and keep hearing the new arrivals talking the same old bollox.

It seems to me that a rebreather diver seems perfectly able to talk about their style of diving and their choices, while the GUE / DIR guys aren't.

Feigned offense, I love it.

Let's be clear about this. You want to talk about the value of continual learning and practice, I will be the first to agree. You want to talk about the dangers of ignoring work up dives, I will 100% support you. How about a discussion on peer pressure and the dangers of having your decisions made by others, I would be pretty interested in that. But, the thread that sparked this one was about agency dick swinging and elitism. However well it is dressed up as genuine concern it is the same old bollox and I am not going to waste my time rationalising it so as to appear polite.

Personally, I would like nothing more than to move past it and agree on those things we do agree on.

[gobfish1]

sky is blue . grass is green .. , well that s that done then ,, NEXT

do we have to agree , No i dont thinks so ,, if we did it would be a v dull world ,,

[JasonP]

Originally Posted by Diving Dude

And so the 'love in' continues.

One set of divers think about the detail and the rest don't do detail.

I know what you mean. I'm not a rebreather diver. I tend not to pick on rebreather divers either, especially on a Friday, as you don't know they'll be around to defend themselves on a Monday. but if you look at the big dives being done around the UK, it's by guys on rebreathers. And you can't get much less DIR than a closed circuit rebreather, can you? But are you honestly telling me that guys who dive to 90+m regularly and come back regularly really don't pay attention to detail?

Jason

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by JasonP

I know what you mean. I'm not a rebreather diver. I tend not to pick on rebreather divers either, especially on a Friday, as you don't know they'll be around to defend themselves on a Monday. but if you look at the big dives being done around the UK, it's by guys on rebreathers. And you can't get much less DIR than a closed circuit rebreather, can you? But are you honestly telling me that guys who dive to 90+m regularly and come back regularly really don't pay attention to detail?

Jason

I think it's safe to say that if you don't pay attention to detail on a rebreather, you die - it's as simple as that

[gobfish1]

Originally Posted by JasonP

I know what you mean. I'm not a rebreather diver. I tend not to pick on rebreather divers either, especially on a Friday, as you don't know they'll be around to defend themselves on a Monday. but if you look at the big dives being done around the UK, it's by guys on rebreathers. And you can't get much less DIR than a closed circuit rebreather, can you? But are you honestly telling me that guys who dive to 90+m regularly and come back regularly really don't pay attention to detail?

Jason

some time a bit of luck go.s a long way to.. attention to detail is good , and if you dont pay attention to detail in the 90m+ you will only get the one dive if you dont get the luck ,

[Howard Payne]

Matt you seem to have formed a very detailed, in depth opinion of my character without ever having met me?

I always liked the Wim Wenders quote: "The more opinions you have - the less you see"

What opinion should I form about someone I've never met who lists themselves on their profile as a "BSAC Activist"? If I was being a bigotted twat - I might assume that you've got a giant axe to grind yourself and that you're more interested in just stirring up trouble than being concerned about fellow diver safety? Or perhaps "Activist" is just an ill chosen word that I've chosen to pick apart for points - just as you did with my whole post?

One of my last mix dives was actually with a BSAC Instructor you might know who dives a rebreather and one of the next dives I have planned is with an IANTD Instructor. They're not GUE - they're just in my opinion people who are safe, sensible divers with an appropriate attitude to the risks involved.

I would say about two thirds of my diving is with non GUE divers. If I felt GUE was some sort of "be all and end all" and the only safe way to dive - clearly I wouldn't be doing all these dives with non GUE people.

I came to GUE not because of my anal attention to detail or aversion to risk or control freakery but because I actually have a naturally cavalier attitude to my own safety and I nearly got bent on an uncontrolled ascent from the Kyarra on about my 12th dive. What I've found is an agency that has given my the skills and the capacity to deal with all my other continuing cock ups like running out of deco gas, getting lost momentarily in a cave and sundry other mistakes that I have in the past admitted to and will continue to readily admit to as and when they happen in the future.

If you think I consider myself as some sort of elite dive god - you're very, very wrong and I don't doubt that I will continue to make many mistakes. The crucial thing is that I truly believe that the training and continual practice culture that I have been a part of has given me the capacity to handle my own cock ups and turn them into non events.

People outside of GUE training do do this stuff and have worked to develop a capacity that is "more than enough" rather than "on a good day just enough" but in my honest experience - it's the exception rather than the rule.

When I say "Are We Taking This Seriously Enough" I mean it - You, ME - all of us. I don't need your cod bullsh*t double bluff psychology theories to tell me what I think. I think that I don't take 30m dives seriously enough, I think that I cut the odd corner just like ever one else, I think I don't perform thorough enough pre dive checks and equipment matching sometimes when I'm hurrying to get in the water. I think that I could tighten things up in many ways.

Above all I think that I don't think enough about all the consequential effects of what would happen if my own complacencies conspired to roll me a seven one day and then my meagre talent didn't bail me out.

The fact that I posted my observations knowing I'd get a ton of flak might suggest that my motives were far from selfish and partisan but rather from a genuine concern about what I'm seeing?

From the huge number of messages of support I've had from people on this forum of every training background - I am now certain that there are plenty of people who are feeling the same way that I am.