World gone mad...

[Dr Stevil]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bikerbill @ Nov. 12 2003,13:43)]Teachers piss me off  

What ? All of them...???

I considered, for a few nanoseconds, going into teaching, but decided against it because it's such a difficult and thankless task. I think those who are prepared to do this job either deserve a medal or need to have their head examined.

[my_evil_twin]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Nov. 12 2003,11:15)]They've been breakin up the lectures for the required five prayers a day so he  told them, "If you've got time for your prayers you can damn well find time to acknowledge the men and women that have made it possible for you to be here in the first place !" Well done that man

<font color='#000080'>Err right. So from your somewhat confusing post, am i to gather that you want us to commerate the war dead because they died fighting for your freedom to be an anti-arab &nbsp;bigot?

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (my_evil_twin @ Nov. 14 2003,12:00)]Err right. So from your somewhat confusing post, am i to gather that you want us to commerate the war dead because they died fighting for your freedom to be an anti-arab  bigot?

With the best will in the world - YES!

That's precisely what they died for (seeing as the 'other lot' wanted to impose their will on freemen who had been same since Magna Carta) - so that freemen might express their opinion (regardless of how objectionable to you it might appear).

Voltaire: &quot;I disagree with you, sir, wholesale, but I would  fight to the death for your right to hold such a position.&quot;

I can also state, having met with and dived with Stevie W many times (as have many here), that if you think for one minute he is anything resembling a 'bigot', then you are grossly mistaken mate; and he easn't being 'anti-Arab': he specifically referred to Saudis - and in the pantheon of restricted and 'locked-down' societies, a harder to find example (outside of the Taliban) would be somewhat difficult. Try exercising your religion (or any of the things you take for granted of a normal day) in Saudi, and then come back and tell us just how bigotted Stevie appears?? I speak from experience squire.

And if you found his posting 'somewhat confused', then that probably indicates more about your goodself than it might Stevie. If we are allow filfth like the BNP and NF (whom Stevie is avowedly against), then we are to allow - again, as objectionable as they may appear to you - the views and thoughts of those whom you find distasteful and/or 'confused'.

Under you proferred proscribed approach, we'd end up with the sorry malaise which they have in modern day Germany, where all school children are frog-marched through The House at Wansee - where the 'Final Solution' was agreed and signed by the Nazi Top Brass - and basically instructed, for the rest of their adult lives, just what terrible people they (the Germans) still are!

That said, I'm not suggesting for one minute that cogent lessons shouldn't be learnt from history, they should, but keeping a veil of &quot;you're collectively horrid&quot; over the heads of an ever distanced from the events and growing German youth can have drastic results - a la them revolting from this overt instruction (as they find it either inappropriate or objectionable) and running headlong into the arms of the far right movements over there.

For balance, best we remember Edmund Burke's (1729-1797) words: &quot;For evil to triumph, all it takes is that good men do nothing&quot;.

[my_evil_twin]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bren Tierney @ Nov. 14 2003,12:36)]

With the best will in the world - YES!

That's precisely what they died for (seeing as the 'other lot' wanted to impose their will on freemen who had been same since Magna Carta) - so that freemen might express their opinion (regardless of how objectionable to you it might appear).

he easn't being 'anti-Arab': he specifically referred to Saudis - and in the pantheon of restricted and 'locked-down' societies, a harder to find example (outside of the Taliban) would be somewhat difficult.

And if you found his posting 'somewhat confused', then that probably indicates more about your goodself than it might Stevie. If we are allow filfth like the BNP and NF (whom Stevie is avowedly against), then we are to allow - again, as objectionable as they may appear to you - the views and thoughts of those whom you find distasteful and/or 'confused'.

Under you proferred proscribed approach, we'd end up with the sorry malaise which they have in modern day Germany, where all school children are frog-marched through The House at Wansee - where the 'Final Solution' was agreed and signed by the Nazi Top Brass - and basically instructed, for the rest of their adult lives, just what terrible people they (the Germans) still are!

That said, I'm not suggesting for one minute that cogent lessons shouldn't be learnt from history, they should, but keeping a veil of &quot;you're collectively horrid&quot; over the heads of an ever distanced from the events and growing German youth can have drastic results - a la them revolting from this overt instruction (as they find it either inappropriate or objectionable) and running headlong into the arms of the far right movements over there.

For balance, best we remember Edmund Burke's (1729-1797) words: &quot;For evil to triumph, all it takes is that good men do nothing&quot;.

<font color='#000080'>Well blimey Bren, and I thought steves mail was confused.

&quot;1) he easn't being 'anti-Arab': he specifically referred to Saudis &quot;

Look mate, a bigoted statement is bigoted no matter if it refers to a general group or merely an entire nationality. Regardless of my opinion of the Saudi government, I would not write off an entire nationality any more than I hold all Americans responsible for the deranged actions of Dubya. And I think you'll find the statement Steve was condoning was actually about their religion, not their government.

I'm glad to hear your and Steves (scuse the grammar) revulsion against the BNP etc. I share it. &nbsp;Thats why I worry when I see a political climate developing in which Islam is becoming demonised,and anti-arab abuse becomes acceptable (and I'v met plenty of otherwise reasonable people who think its ok to refer to arabs as &quot;towel heads&quot &nbsp;because it does play into the hands of racists like the BNP, who are making muslims their main target at present. I suspect the instructor's comment had more to do with the post September 11th political climate than any sense of outrage at the saudi political system.

Speaking as an atheist, I have no axe to grind for or against any particular religion, but Islam like any other religion has its liberal and puritanical wings, and certainly doesnt have any monopoly on repression - just look at the religous right in the USA for example! I shudder to think what a &nbsp;religous state led by them would be like, but I'd hardly accuse all christians of being equally fanatical.

[my_evil_twin]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bren Tierney @ Nov. 14 2003,12:36)]

With the best will in the world - YES!


he easn't being 'anti-Arab': he specifically referred to Saudis - and in the pantheon of restricted and 'locked-down' societies, a harder to find example (outside of the Taliban) would be somewhat difficult.

<font color='#000080'>Well blimey Bren, and I thought steves mail was confused.

&quot;1) he easn't being 'anti-Arab': he specifically referred to Saudis &quot;

Look mate, a bigoted statement is bigoted no matter if it refers to a general group or merely an entire nationality. Regardless of my opinion of the Saudi government, I would not write off an entire nationality any more than I hold all Americans responsible for the deranged actions of Dubya. And I think you'll find the statement Steve was condoning was actually about their religion, not their government.

I'm glad to hear your and Steves (scuse the grammar) revulsion against the BNP etc. I share it. &nbsp;Thats why I worry when I see a political climate developing in which Islam is becoming demonised,and anti-arab abuse becomes acceptable (and I'v met plenty of otherwise reasonable people who think its ok to refer to arabs as &quot;towel heads&quot &nbsp;because it does play into the hands of racists like the BNP, who are making muslims their main target at present. I suspect the instructor's comment had more to do with the post September 11th political climate than any sense of outrage at the saudi political system.

Speaking as an atheist, I have no axe to grind for or against any particular religion, but Islam like any other religion has its liberal and puritanical wings, and certainly doesnt have any monopoly on repression - just look at the religous right in the USA for example! I shudder to think what a &nbsp;religous state led by them would be like, but I'd hardly accuse all christians of being equally fanatical.

[Mr T.]

Healer - heal thyself!

Look up the word 'confused' and then 'rambling' in your dictionary mate and then review your diatribe above. Or, for clarification on just how points are lost when drenched in passion - read about the recent 'message lost due to emotion and language used' treatment of John Duncan on the BSAC forum. And no, I'm not suggesting for one minute that you'll get banned from here or anywhere else; just that when your obviously strident views come under a mircoscope they appear as the worst type of anchorless liberalism: the attempt that 'one size in life fits all', when it patently doesn't. If you don't like the statements here then, like the rest of us, take or leave 'em.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]They've been breakin up the lectures for the required five prayers a day so he &nbsp;told them, &quot;If you've got time for your prayers you can damn well find time to acknowledge the men and women that have made it possible for you to be here in the first place !&quot; Well done that man

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]a bigoted statement is bigoted no matter if it refers to a general group or merely an entire nationality

Why do you think that it was bigoted? &nbsp;these guys were on a course, they had set a precedent for breaking up the course for short intervals with their prayers - which they were allowed to do - and they were requested to do the same for the 2 minute silence. &nbsp;It appears that they did this willingly and felt no sense of bigotry or they could have refused. &nbsp;Why do you feel the need to stand back from the even and preach that someone has demeaned Islam???

I think that you are reading way to far into what was an innocent post, reamrking on what seems to be a good example of mutual respect, as opposed to some racist incident!

I work in a company with a multitude of nationalities. &nbsp;Our silence is voluntary, but woe betide anyone who breaks it in my earshot. &nbsp;As it was we had Indians, Russians, Italians and more, all respectfully holding a silence.

Just take it from us that you have got Steve so far wrong it isn't even funny and let it lie.

Cheers

Lou

[Dr Stevil]

Chers for the vindication Bren and Lou and confirming that I am in no way, shape or form a bigot, M.E.T. has obviously missed my previous whale-hugging-hippy-vegetable-rights-and-peace style posts of yore. Also he/she has missed the point that it was the lecturer who made the comments how he runs his class is his business but yes as Lou says I believe he was using it as an excercise in mutual cultural appreciation. Quite how my post was &quot;confusing&quot; is a mystery, the topic was about Remembrance Day and so was my post.

Anyway, moving swiftly on... got my Oly C5050Z today, so once I've figured the damn thing out it'll be a &nbsp;PT-015 in the Xmas stocking and orft we jolly well go whoo-hoo!
For anyone looking to by camera stuff, I got mine from www.warehouseexpress.com who do kit on 9months intrest free credit (whoo-yah!), phone ordered it tuesday, got finance forms Wednesday, they dispatched it thursday and I recieved it Friday! outstanding!! &nbsp;399 quid plus 8 quid &nbsp;P&amp;P

[my_evil_twin]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bren Tierney @ Nov. 14 2003,13:29)]Look up the word 'confused' and then 'rambling' in your dictionary mate and then review your diatribe above. of us, take or leave 'em.

<font color='#000080'>well bren, I count seven paragraphs, covering approx the same number of bases in your 'diatribe' as opposed to four in mine, but what the hell, its a friday afternoon, not being a student I'm rather too busy to indulge in a &nbsp;flame war so I'll smile indulgently and leave you to it.

[Tim Ingmire]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Nov. 14 2003,14:11)]Anyway, moving swiftly on... got my Oly C5050Z today, so once I've figured the damn thing out it'll be a  PT-015 in the Xmas stocking and orft we jolly well go whoo-hoo!

Olly owners of the World Unite!

I propose a new forum here - DIO - as in Doin' it Olly! &nbsp;(not as in Ronnie James!)

We Olly owners vow to take over the world and we will ensure that 2 minutes silence be mandatory. &nbsp;Anybody that fails to do so shall be punished in the most severe terms - A two minute silent glare stare from one Lou Bailey!