this was sent to me by a fellow diver and i agree with it popcorn time

[Buoyant Babe]

Originally Posted by Richard Mason

Oh FFS, can't we just drop this? It's been done, in various permutations about 30 times since I came on this forum. No one is going to agree and no one is going to change their minds.

Hear hear! Well said Richard

[Tunicates are Mad]

Originally Posted by Frederick Perrin

Drop Tony Blair and his government into Iraq and let Tony Blair and co explain why 1000s of there people are dead ........

safe Diving everyone Fred

Sorry to continue the thread, but thats a whole new thread right there Fred.
In short, it was part of a plan to regain some on the ground presence in the region. In the run-off from 9/11 Bush phoned up all the world leaders that mattered and asked 'Are you with us or against us?' What would your reply have been at that point Fred? At what point would you have ended all economic ties with the US and decided to merge the pound with the Euro?
'Cos as far as I can see, that was the only real alternative. Personally I think it would have been the better move, but I wasnt in No 10, and nor were you.

Rock....
a whole load of human beings that didnt have a say in the matter
..........Hardplace

I think I've got sympathies for everyone involved in that one. Except for Bush maybe ( and Al Q obviously )

[Paulus]

Originally Posted by gerbil

nope, ill never dive with those PADI tossers.........splitters the lot of em

Hmm....

Tribal outbusts like that make one wonder how the BSAC lot get their tanks down from their trees.......

[ray]

Originally Posted by Paulus

WE are all members of the same race - Homo sapiens sapiens. Apparently the second sapiens distiguishes us, real modern humans, from less successfull branches of our ancestory. Since evolving as a single discrete species H sapiens began an explosive expansion in population as it spread arround the world. The distinct regional features which we use to define modern "race" are only a few tens of thousands of years old. So it isn't even "race" that divides us. It is something much less physical.
Something which transcends all our ancestoral roots is tribal instinct. It is ingrained in our biological make-up by millions of years of evolution. It can be traced to a time when we were er... dogs

Tribalism is an instinct which to a degree is hard wired into our brains. Maybe we will eventually evolve to a less tribal creature, maybe we won't.
Some of the driving force behind tribalism is defence of resources and also some fear. Maybe modern society has the will and the ways to overcome this very strong instinct. Until we do we can only accept who we are and work with it the best we can.
No ammount of political fiddling and fannying will change that.

We have in reality moved on very little from our monkey ancestors. But give it time....

Pheww Very profound, dont forget Sparkies are only Joiners without brains .

[Paulus]

Originally Posted by ray

Pheww Very profound, dont forget Sparkies are only Joiners without brains .

I should know I was one for over 20 years

I gave it up to rest my brain.

[Paul Oliver]

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

Sharia law is, more or less, no different from marriage counceling, it has no legal standing whatsoever. Complaining about it is like trying to complain about having kosher food for sale in the supermarket!

Bit like here then:-

MoD News - Killed for Loving a British soldier

[Tunicates are Mad]

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

Bit like here then:-

MoD News - Killed for Loving a British soldier

Paul, now you made me spend 2 minutes finding this for you.
I hope you read it.
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When you find the bit in it about killing anyone over their choice of partner, perhaps you could post it up?


For the last time, Sharia is the muslim version of the ten commandmants.
No, I'm not defending any 'honour' killings or any of that stuff, that is just social prejudice ( Oooh - where else is there any of that? ) taken to extremes.


Edit - OK, I read through that MoD piece, and the Iraqi guy refers to it as being a religious law - thats his and his countries social prejudice. Its not enshrined in Sharia Law - at least not in the UK's version. I certainly disagree with that fundamental interpretation being imported to the UK.
All the Jews I've met in the UK are a perfectly nice lot, with moderate views. Most of the Isrealis in Israel I've met are as unpleasant as you could not hope to meet - or at least, their prejudices are.

I accept that there IS a need to inform some of our muslim population that the social prejudices of their country of origin HAS to remain in that country.
How we do that is obviously up for debate.

[John63]

Sorry, Sharia law is not just "marriage guidance " as you have previoulsy posted.
Following your link:

[quote=Tunicates are Mad;912271]
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found a few examples:

a)the European Court of Human Rights* determined that sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy

* I'm assuming that they have more experience and knowledge than you or I.

b) Sharia law may be considered as the world's most homophobic legal system. It has completely criminalized homosexuality with laws that include executions as punishment


c) In accordance with the Qur'an and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet,


I won't go into womens rights, or their "legal" standing under sharia law.


if you want to see sharia law in practice, come and live/work where I do. Speak to the people whose lives are fully dictated by it, and then tell me that it's just marriage guidance.

[Tunicates are Mad]

John, Thanks for the examples.

This thread isnt about what people do in other countries, the point is about what they do in the UK.

We all know that the interpretation of Sharia in the middle east is far from the ideals ofr 'democracy' - what ever you think that means in this day and age.
What we need to know is how is it being interpreted here.

There is a great need for the Muslim population to be supported here, but there is also a great need for them to understand that forced marriages etc are just not Cricket. If you live in the UK then you are a part of that as much as I am.

Again - Jews and Palestinians dont war in the UK, but they do in their own countries. And the west doesnt seem to care too much about that do they?
Or am I wrong?

[John63]

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

John, Thanks for the examples.

Not my examples, they were taken from the page that you suggested someone else should look at to see what Sharia law was about.

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

This thread isnt about what people do in other countries, the point is about what they do in the UK.


We all know that the interpretation of Sharia in the middle east is far from the ideals ofr 'democracy' - what ever you think that means in this day and age.
What we need to know is how is it being interpreted here.

I think that you will find that the more extreme element in the muslim community would argue that Shariah law does not have regional variations and should be adhered to in completeness.

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

There is a great need for the Muslim population to be supported here.

accepted into society - of course
encouraged to integrate into society rather than as a closed community - absolutely
given special treatment under the law - no, why?

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

but there is also a great need for them to understand that forced marriages etc are just not Cricket..

Agreed

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

If you live in the UK ..

I don't (anymore)