Stop the country - I want to get off.

[ridge]

I think I'm going to stick to the Independent myself although I do rather enjoy comparing on the (so called) left the Guardian with its mirror image on the right the Daily Mail!

For a long hard quality read I trust Viz implicitly.

I think that it is almost as dangerous to stereotype "Tories" as it is "Labour" .

This surely is because these names simply do not have the same traditional meaning they had during the upbringing years of most people of adult age in this country.

Does anyone disagree that "Labour" are now virtually centre right wing or lent that way, according to the traditional terminology?

Certainly the real and implied corruption of the current government makes it at least the same if not worse than the Tories.

So a potentially pathological hatred of "Tories" (incidentally I'm not one) is somewhat counter productive.

Bury the class hatchet, if you've been to China you've seen the damage hate orientated extreme wing politics causes, destroying peoples lives over generations.

All that matters for the UK is at least attempting to pull the country together by starting to enforce the virtue of honesty, trust and accountability across party lines. From what can be seen of many MPs current track records this might be quite a long haul.


Ding Ding

[mikecsmith]

You're right on the counter productive point, it's just a hard hatred to break, think I might vote lib dem next time round.

[dry suit diver]

You're right on the counter productive point, it's just a hard hatred to break, think I might vote lib dem next time round.

thats what they are hoping will happen, get disillusioned by the big two and steal seats.

then we pay council tax on how much we earn so we could live in a reasonably nice house worth not a lot because its in a shithole area, earn good money but not enough to afford a large mortgage to move out of said shithole area that used to be really nice and pay a fortune for the privelige.

or we could have a huge 4 bed house worth a packet cos we dropped lucky with investments in the 80s in a really nice area and not have an income and pay a pittance.


hmmm they sound more like the Conservative party already


remember the poll tax

good example was my parents house a standard 3 bed semi- 4 over 18s all paying the full amount tax was nearly £2k a year.

next door 1 adult same type of house £500 a year


as soon as SWMBO mum croaks we are out of here, wifey is a teacher and can get work easily abroad, I am an electrical engineer and am also a desired trade.

[thewisestfish]

good example was my parents house a standard 32 bed semi- 4 over 18s all paying the full amount tax was nearly £2k a year.

Standard 32 bed semi! What was it, a brothel?

[dry suit diver]

Standard 32 bed semi! What was it, a brothel?

Feck what a typo to make

[mala]

You're right on the counter productive point, it's just a hard hatred to break, think I might vote lib dem next time round.

i'm voting with my feet.

with a little help from a small 4x4 and a trailer full of dive gear ,sun tan lotion and flip flops.

[ridge]

The poll tax, was particularly unfortunate in exposing a large hole in "the moral ethics of the electorate".

There were, and still are, many individuals invisibly using services that they make no contribution for whatsoever, instead they are paid for effectively by the "unfair" overpayment of others.

At the time the poll tax (especially looking at some of the references to americanization in this thread) was seen as an idea for fairer individual cost accountability, that was after all in use in other 'democratic' countries like the US.

Actually, and ironically, a socialist policy executed by a conservative government.

Although personally I prefer the rating system, the logic of "people use services, so people pay for services, so people earn the right to vote for services" is far closer to reality than rating.

This is in focus now because of the local authority rubbish bin issues, and very large swathes of unmonitored\unregulated\unaccountable EU immigration, with resultant headlines regarding school and hospital services in overload.

Sadly the arguments for size of house = size of use of council services are therefore more riddled with flaws.

Sadly the Poll Tax fiasco said more about this country's ability to pull itself apart and fall apart, than it did about pulling together and improving the quality of life for the average citizen.

Personally, now its coming on top with much higher council tax, I'm beginning to look over the shoulder of Poll Tax myself and wonder.........is that banjo music getting louder again?.............Mala have you got a spare seat in that 4x4.............. I'll bring my own flip flops........ and Joan Baez tapes...........and my party pack of prozac........................

Ding Ding

[SoggyFox]

I came to the conclusion there and then that the most effective terrorist would probably be a nicely-spoken young-ish white female.

very true, probably the scariest thing on earth, especially when you add a tot or 2 of alcohol. Then again i'd probably be quite happy to lock one away for 42 days.

[JasonP]

good example was my parents house a standard 3 bed semi- 4 over 18s all paying the full amount tax was nearly £2k a year.

next door 1 adult same type of house £500 a year

And that's bad because? Why should a house with 4 adults all using the council services pay the same as a pensioner who doesn't want to move from the house they've spent almost all their lives in?

The current system is just as unfair, it just penalises different people.

Jason

[dry suit diver]

And that's bad because? Why should a house with 4 adults all using the council services pay the same as a pensioner who doesn't want to move from the house they've spent almost all their lives in?

The current system is just as unfair, it just penalises different people.

Jason

never said the current system was ideal and it needs a whole review.

oh and at that time I was working away ( lodging) 7 days a week but there was nothing in the system to allow for the fact I wasn't actually living there even though that was my permanent address. I beleive hotels and the like pay a huge amount of Rates so people who stay there and use the local facilities indirectly pay towards them.

Fair system??

strangely enough you find that a lot of the oldies that won't pay don't actually claim all the benefits they are entitled to- my mum is now in a care home funded by her contributions to the system over her working life, I found out that both her and my Dad who was the carer could claim all sorts but hadn't as they didn't know.


on the flipside is SWMBOs mum who is aware of what she can claim but doesn't as she thinks its ' charity'

maybe better Govt advice for olds instead of all the advice and initiatives for Chavvy single mums who reproduce on sink estates faster than rabbits.