Stop the country - I want to get off.

[Lazlo]

Letters: Don't fear the state - Letters, Opinion - The Independent

Sir: I don't fear the State, Mr Jacobson (Comment, 14 June). I don't suspect it of base motives. I just don't think it's very bright, and nobody enjoys having a fool for a boss. Consider, for a moment, being required to work with an editor who, flying in the teeth of all available evidence, considers himself best placed to tell you how to write your books.

The State feels the need to get involved in all aspects of my life, without ever showing any particular aptitude for the job. It wants to educate my children, but can't quite decide from one week to the next on the best way to do so. It wants to keep me safe, but approaches the analysis of comparative risk with the mind of a four-year-old child; happy to play hopscotch on the M25, but terrified of dragons.

It wants everyone to behave themselves, but believes the best way for that to happen is for it to stand peering in through my kitchen window in case I do something wrong. It wants to collect as much information as it can but, like a bank that opens a branch before installing the safe, can't quite figure out what to do with it, or where to put it. It wants to go to war on our behalf, but can't bring itself to explain the real reason why.

It is surrounded by battalions of advisers, but listens only to the bad ones. It desperately wants to make things better for everyone, but is constantly distracted by its perceived directive to help rich people to get richer.

There is an overwhelming case for the State to finally decide on its core competencies, wherever they may be, and to be swiftly kicked when it steps beyond them.

What appears to have happened is that, in a moment of nervousness, lacking the comfort of any convincing Higher Power, we have decided to make our own, and in a ham-fisted attempt to do so, we've taken the brightest and best, the finest intellects of our age, put them in a room together and created an extremely large, extremely powerful idiot.

Tim Hinchliffe

Beckenham, Kent



This was in response to this:

Howard Jacobson: It's the end of civil liberties as we know it - or that's how some people prefer to think - Howard Jacobson, Commentators - The Independent

[aclivity]

The poll tax, was particularly unfortunate in exposing a large hole in "the moral ethics of the electorate".

There were, and still are, many individuals invisibly using services that they make no contribution for whatsoever, instead they are paid for effectively by the "unfair" overpayment of others.

At the time the poll tax (especially looking at some of the references to americanization in this thread) was seen as an idea for fairer individual cost accountability, that was after all in use in other 'democratic' countries like the US.

Actually, and ironically, a socialist policy executed by a conservative government.

I don't understand how you think the poll tax was a socialist policy.

The core tenet of socialism (which, in support your earlier point, is NOT what the current labour party represent) is "from each to their ability, to each to their needs". The poll tax did not reflect anyone's ability to pay - it levied a flat fee; there may have been some rebates for those at the very bottom of the ability to pay, but there were no additions for those at the top.

I believe David Cameron is slightly to the "left" of the current Labour party, in that he speaks of a "social responsibility". This is a big shift from the pre-1997 Tory party, but he is a politician so he may be lying. The Lib Dems don't seem to be lying, they admit up front that costs will go up, although they may be lying about how much they will rise.

Oh, and on the subject of free speech ... oooh, I just accused an elected politician of lying. Wait ... nope, no-one has come to take me away. I'll try some more: Gordon Brown has been promoted above his competence! Alistair Darling looks weird! Jacqui Smith hasn't a clue about the job of the Police!

[Jimbo200SX]

Oh, and on the subject of free speech ... oooh, I just accused an elected politician of lying. Wait ... nope, no-one has come to take me away. I'll try some more: Gordon Brown has been promoted above his competence! Alistair Darling looks weird! Jacqui Smith hasn't a clue about the job of the Police!

The Thought Police will be with you shortly.......

[Foggy]

Hey Chris have you been talking to the truckers?

Well country stopped, but I don't fancy the chances of getting off anytime soon!

-Paul

[Lazlo]

I don't understand how you think the poll tax was a socialist policy.

Me neither.

Oh, and on the subject of free speech ... oooh, I just accused an elected politician of lying. Wait ... nope, no-one has come to take me away. I'll try some more: Gordon Brown has been promoted above his competence! Alistair Darling looks weird! Jacqui Smith hasn't a clue about the job of the Police!

Stick that on a poster and try that within a mile of parliament .

[ridge]

Local sales tax is another thing that happens elsewhere in the world about 3% on the cost of all retail and commercial transactions in the council area - but it involves another layer of more complex, accountancy complicated bureaucracy.

Think I'm going to give GB another 5 years, so my youngest son gets to adulthood, and then seriously review staying here or not

The biggest turn off to me (its a Labour issue I'm afraid only because its them thats been in power for the last 10 years plus) has been the wanton financing of far too much diversity away from the traditional GB society structure

The recent debacle with Ken Livingstone as he left (a man whose his politics I didn't share but I wrongly respected his apparent integrity - or so I thought)- it seems central and local government have actually been awash with funds for many many years and very inclined to spend these on the said diversity, with little or no accountability whatsoever.

A government that can't even properly monitor or control its borders and has no actual record of the massive numbers of immigrees, especially with the current security concerns is for me a gross incompetence too far - and both my Polish and Estonian friends agree with me

Besides which thinking about it, I won't be able to leave the country anyway, because I can't put my furniture into storage as all the storage facilities in Crawley are full of terrorist bomb making fertiliser. F*** it

Ding Ding

[ridge]

Oh and

Way to go Lazlo!

Perhaps we should all read both the articles you wisely posted, cos I don't think most people are even bothered to understand the not too difficult to access truths in the current situation, let alone actually actively do something about them.

But on what I can't agree.....Err...... poll tax by whatever philosphical bent is socialist by its very distribution, before one even looks at its so called reasons for and techniques of, implimentation. Socialism, the last time I looked, (although this is as we know subject to considerable flux at the moment) was a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles?

I am not a number ..................

And you are right about the freedom of speech I only wish more UK citizens understood this, and also the actual absence of a proper democracy. This might start a turn around....

Ding Ding

[mikecsmith]

Letters: Don't fear the state - Letters, Opinion - The Independent

Sir: I don't fear the State, Mr Jacobson (Comment, 14 June). I don't suspect it of base motives. I just don't think it's very bright, and nobody enjoys having a fool for a boss. Consider, for a moment, being required to work with an editor who, flying in the teeth of all available evidence, considers himself best placed to tell you how to write your books.

The State feels the need to get involved in all aspects of my life, without ever showing any particular aptitude for the job. It wants to educate my children, but can't quite decide from one week to the next on the best way to do so. It wants to keep me safe, but approaches the analysis of comparative risk with the mind of a four-year-old child; happy to play hopscotch on the M25, but terrified of dragons.

It wants everyone to behave themselves, but believes the best way for that to happen is for it to stand peering in through my kitchen window in case I do something wrong. It wants to collect as much information as it can but, like a bank that opens a branch before installing the safe, can't quite figure out what to do with it, or where to put it. It wants to go to war on our behalf, but can't bring itself to explain the real reason why.

It is surrounded by battalions of advisers, but listens only to the bad ones. It desperately wants to make things better for everyone, but is constantly distracted by its perceived directive to help rich people to get richer.

There is an overwhelming case for the State to finally decide on its core competencies, wherever they may be, and to be swiftly kicked when it steps beyond them.

What appears to have happened is that, in a moment of nervousness, lacking the comfort of any convincing Higher Power, we have decided to make our own, and in a ham-fisted attempt to do so, we've taken the brightest and best, the finest intellects of our age, put them in a room together and created an extremely large, extremely powerful idiot.

Tim Hinchliffe

Beckenham, Kent



This was in response to this:

Howard Jacobson: It's the end of civil liberties as we know it - or that's how some people prefer to think - Howard Jacobson, Commentators - The Independent

[chrisch]

Hey Chris have you been talking to the truckers?

Well country stopped, but I don't fancy the chances of getting off anytime soon!

-Paul

No mate, but it sounds remarkably like my train this evening
(Points failure at Kings X so they say... more like Reggie Perrin every day )

Chris

[kevin'sSnorkel.]

Just wanted to say, cracking thread - and not one word about diving!!!