BBC Documentary in 'BNP Is Racist' Shocker

[Andrew H]

I received the BNP pamphlet leading up to the last election, and most of what they say makes sense. I couldn't vote for them because they're nutters (and that's prejudice!) But at least they have a platform. Conservative had the slogan 'Are you sick of Labour'. I ask you. During the run up to these elections, all manor of people had advertising saying, 'don't vote BNP' suggesting that democracy would be the loser. Even the police were touting this. I'm not sure what these people think democracy is. By all means arrest and convict any BNP members who break the law. If it is desirable provide new laws. On the same day arrest Abu Hamza and his like we will have balance. This year in Bradford I have heard very little racism against asians or refugees. Only objection to the governments financial support of asylum seekers. I cannot say the same of the Muslims I work with. I have heard both Arabs and Pakistanis ranting about Jews in a most disturbing way. While I agree that there is a major problem in Palestine, I make a distinction between the state of Israel and Jews in general. I have heard a Pakistani taxi driver suggest the Hitler didn't go far enough in his eradication of the Jews! This is will beyond Holocaust denial. I have heard that Schindlers List has a cause for great merriment throughout the Middle East. Given the state of the world today I think that a party using political means to bring change is the least of our worries. Yes it does attract extremists, as does Sinn Fein, there will always be those who do not believe that politcal means are enough. The BNP will never win enough votes to control the country, but a vote for the BNP is a vote which could provide some sway. In the same way the Green party will not control the country, but many of us would like a few of them in to provide pressure for environmental concerns.

I have worked recently with three Iraqi refugees (and nice guys they were too) and I have no issue with them settling and working here. However when my sister returned to England from Zimbabwe with a young baby, when it was no longer nice to live there, she returned with nothing, and was entitled to very little help from the government. She had to seperate from her partner temporarily in order to survive. This is a far cry from the support non British refugees reportedly receive.


Andrew

[Mark Davies]

Originally Posted by Andrew H

This is a far cry from the support non British refugees reportedly receive.

Whilst having every sympathy for your sister's predicament I'd just like to highlight the most important word in the quote above. That is of course 'reportedly'.

If you were to believe what the BNP and Daily Mail print you'd expect that the assylum seekers in the UK are living in the lap of luxury. My work brings me into contact with them on a daily basis and I can tell you this is far from the reality. In general I find them housed six to a two bedroomed terrace house, with the minimum scraps of tatty, second hand furniture. If they do have a television it's usually ancient and barely working. Many of the appliances they are given, such as a basic gas cooker, are completely alien to them. No-one bothers telling them how to use them, so they lie there, useless. Oddly, I do find many of them have got mobile phones (not surprising as they're desperate to keep in touch with their families at home, just to find out if they're still alive). And more of a problem, some manage to get hold of cars, which they obviously drive around uninsured.

Now that is the only major problem they cause, generally as a result of ignorance rather than malice, as is generally the case with any other of their offending behaviour. A lot of the other problems, such as begging and being supported by the state, would easily be alieviated if they were allowed to work. I find they are very unhappy to be thought of as scroungers and just want to earn their keep.

[John N]

Andrew is right about democracy. You can't have democracy without risking that people you don't agree with might get elected. We have little enough democracy as it is with basically a two/three party system. At least people like the greens can exert some influence in Europe.
Take a look at the US, the greatest democracy on Earth. A two party system based on taking massive donations from big business in return for what?

On top of this, free speech is taking a bashing as well. There'll be a new law, the 'incitement to religious hatred' soon. Why? I fail to see why the religious should enjoy a greater level of protection under the law than the rest of us.
Personally, I would dis-establish the Church of England and ban all religious services in all schools. Religion is for church/mosque/whatever, not to be taught as if it is fact in schools.

As far as immigration goes, most people would set some sort of limit on it. As I understand it official figures expect a 5.6 million rise in UK population by 2031 with 85% of that coming from immigration.
As a small country with one of the highest population densities in Europe, there is a limit to how many people we can take. Is 200 odd thousand a year sustainable? What will that do to the cost of housing?
There are also social challenges when large numbers of immigrants arrive in an area in a fairly short period of time. It has to be managed properly.
I'm not anti-immigration but there are important issues that need to be dealt with.
Also, English language competence should be compulsory (free lessons if required) and some sort of allegiance to the country made.

Phew. Rant over.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

If you were to believe what the BNP and Daily Mail print you'd expect that the assylum sekers in the UK ..............

If you were to believe anything in the Daily Mail you would be a right twat.

Oh. Not quite. Usually they have the correct date and price on the front page.

Bernie Grant says black bin liners are racist anyone? (Poor chap is dead now and Tottenham get Lamy {lambie? bahhh..})

Chris

[Andrew H]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

Whilst having every sympathy for your sister's predicament I'd just like to highlight the most important word in the quote above. That is of course 'reportedly'.

That's exactly why I used it. While there may well be people naive enough to belive the BNP or the Daily Mail I am not one of them. You all but admit however that they were housed and fed albeit poorly. The question remaining then is why is there not more publicity showing these conditions, would could conceivable cause a ground swell in the other direction and pressure would build to provide better for asylum seekers. I appreciate that there are difficulties for new arrivals, when I arrived back from New Zealand, I tried to open a bank account, and even armed with a British passport and a £1000 salary check from the local authority, still had difficulty due to not having my name on the utility bills. To have such problems when you speak fluent English is frustrating, if you don't speak English it must be unbelivable. Obviously such asylum seekers receive help in these matters from proffesional and charitable organisations, which is needed, and consequently receive all the help to which they are entitled. As do many other immigrants such as Pakistanis who have strong community in the UK. The English these days have very poor community, and knowledge of the welfare system is not shared in the same way resulting in the 'they get everything' belief. For myself I have never wanted nor received a state benefit, my only experience of the DSW was apply for my NI number which was an eye opener. The interview took place i a room with a solid barrier from floor to ceiling, with a small slot through which to push papers. Like in the American crime movies. Not quite Silence of the Lambs though! I took a moment to realise that I was on the 'bad people' side of the wall. I felt very sad that this was neccesary (Streatham South London at the time). It was a far cry from the same situation in New Zealand.

All of the Iraqi's I have worked with have spoken adequate English but have had poor reading and especially writing, which I suppose is the result of have a different written system. It always amazes me to watch them sign their name right to left. They receive help from the company with their English. One of these guys was a mechanic in Iraq, the other was a teacher. Both are currently doing low paid manual work. I hope that with time they acheive more in their new lives.

Really I don't believe the current feeling is racism at all for many people, who simply feel that they have paid income tax VAT and NI contributions their whole life for healthcare, education and public services, which they don't beleive they are receiving. There is then the feeling that it can't help them in any way if systems which are already poor are further overextended by a number of people having often poor heath and education. In this they are certainly right. When England gets it act together, then the people will be better disposed to acts of charity towards those who are less fortunate.

Andrew

[Mark Davies]

Andrew, I can't really argue with any of the points you expressed there. It's understandable that when people feel they're not getting value for money from their taxes (and perhaps we're not) they are going to resent giving some away in charity.

But the fact remains that we are one of the top ten richest countries in the world. However, when it comes to the number of assylum seekers accepted per head of native population I think we rank about 43rd! And which country tops that list? One of the poorest in the world - Pakistan.

I think we can afford to be a bit more generous.

[Rick Huggins]

I thought I'd stay out of this particular post as this type of topic always causes contraversy, whatever side of the fence you sit on.

Investagative journalism will always produce skape goats!

I seem to recall one Donald Finlay QC ridiculed for anti catholic songs in a Rangers club

I seem to recall trainee police recruits ridiculed for anti enthnic acts/stories in a police academy

If you dig deep enough in any invironment, you'll find the dirt you seek.

[Andrew H]

Deep down I think most people agree on these topics, but they can't always get across their point.

I think I'm going to leave this discussion now! Diving anyone?

Andrew

[aclivity]

It is my understanding that one of the core tenets of the 'lighter side' (as opposed to the thinly veiled dark underbelly of neo-Nazi, fascist tendencies) of the BNP is British Sovereignty - i.e. getting out of Europe where all those foregners live.

How funny, then, to see their dear leader's comments in this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/business/3902455.stm

[kath2407]

Hmmmm interesting discussion.

This election was the first one that I had felt able to play an active part in. I think I was too young and also going through a bad marriage at the last one. Divorced - older and wiser now!!!!!

I got a BNP leaflet and although we all know what the BNP stand for and I'm sure no one was really surprised by the documentary - the leafelt was worded in an very clever way! really trying to come over as a party with serious political motiviations - not what we saw on the telly!

I have no personal issue with immigrants - however, I do have a problem with illiegal immigrants and how they are dealt with. Working in finance and local government I can site cases where people have "sneaked" into this country then managed to claim a number of identitites, making a fortune through the benefits system. some blame has to lie with our own authorities not making appropriate checks but like any fraudster they can be clever. It seems a shame that a number (how significant we will probably never know) will always taint the impression we have of all immigrants.

Its a difficult subject - when can we not send people back to their original country, when they have been here so long they have changed their culture? Whent hey have children here who have never known any different?

I do not envy the law makers on this subject but agree with a previous post (author forgotten!! sorry) who questions how sustainable our current rate of population increase via immigration can be sustained.

Katherine

(retreating into the corner with her tin hat on - awaiting the debate to fire up again!)