Would you like Fries with that Degree?

[CotoChris]

Originally Posted by bottle_monkey

It seems to me employers when looking at degrees will stop looking at your first degree and start looking at anything extra you have done (like a masters, phd etc.). This will lead to people being in education longer and longer and is that really going to help.

I personally think we should be cutting down on the people going to uni. fair enough go to university if u have the abillity to do so but far too many kids finish their A-level and go to uni cos it seems the easy option.

Maybe entrance exams for uni's?

Agree totally with you. I'm the only one in my family not to do a degree, I went to Ag. School and took a Higher National Diploma in Commercial Horticulture -3 years including a work experience year. I had the option to do a degree for another year but it was more theory and less manual practise. I found the hands on experience of this course to be most helpful. Now I have my own business and these experiences means I end up doing a lot of hands on work which is not only usefull but essential. You can't manage unless you know the job. My main weakness is business management which I'k gainning with experience.

I believe there is far too much pressure on kids being forced to decide on what they want to do for their future at ages as early as 14! What is missing is a good chain of 'hands on colleges' to teach mechanics, plumbing, electricity, welding etch. It's that social stigma 'I have a degree' rather than having a good job, I wouldn't mind being an electrician or plumber. More job security there than in the city!

Another problem with kids starting later at college is the effect on the pension funds and less taxes entering the government coffers as their professional lives start later.

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by Bren Tierney

only a fifth achieved a first or better.

(My emphasis) Am I the only one questioning whether this reporter actually has a clue how the grading system works?

EDIT. Oh my God, I've just realised that the man who wrote this is a Professor. God help the Sociology students at the University of Kent....

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by HelenM

(My emphasis) Am I the only one questioning whether this reporter actually has a clue how the grading system works?

EDIT. Oh my God, I've just realised that the man who wrote this is a Professor. God help the Sociology students at the University of Kent....

H,

I think you'll find it's possible to achieve a 'Double First' (1.1)

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by Bren Tierney

H,

I think you'll find it's possible to achieve a 'Double First' (1.1)

Sorry to come back and out uber-pedant you (actually, I'm lying, I do so with immense glee ) , but in most universities it's actually not. A Double First is (as I understand it) an Oxbridge term covering those students who achieve a first class result in both their first and final years. So the highest result you can achieve is a First.

Yours smugly ,
H

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by HelenM

Sorry to come back and out uber-pedant you (actually, I'm lying, I do so with immense glee ) , but in most universities it's actually not. A Double First is (as I understand it) an Oxbridge term covering those students who achieve a first class result in both their first and final years. So the highest result you can achieve is a First.

Yours smugly ,
H

Check about half way down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Bachelor's_degree_classification#Degree_cl assification

[HelenM]

70%-100%: First Class Honours (First or 1st)
60%-69%: Upper Second Class Honours (2:1)
50%-59%: Lower Second Class Honours (2:2)
45%-49%: Third Class Honours (Third or 3rd)
40%-44%: Pass without honours (Pass)
0%-39%: Fail (no degree is awarded

I have C&P'd the above from the link which you provided. I realise that you prefer squabbling over words to over numbers (), but am sure that even you wouldn't expect a student to achieve over 100%? And what does 100% give you? Oh, that'll be a first then

And the bit about double first - point still holds: it is a first in two subjects - ergo the highest mark is a first.

I might be inclined to concede the point on starred firsts (although am reluctant to do so as you were merely talking about double firsts earlier and I think that you have rather fortuitously stumbled across this particular point ). And besides, it does make the point that this is only awarded by some institutions.

No, not willing to concede on the evidence so far. Keep it coming

H

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by HelenM

70%-100%: First Class Honours (First or 1st)
60%-69%: Upper Second Class Honours (2:1)
50%-59%: Lower Second Class Honours (2:2)
45%-49%: Third Class Honours (Third or 3rd)
40%-44%: Pass without honours (Pass)
0%-39%: Fail (no degree is awarded

I have C&P'd the above from the link which you provided. I realise that you prefer squabbling over words to over numbers (), but am sure that even you wouldn't expect a student to achieve over 100%? And what does 100% give you? Oh, that'll be a first then

And the bit about double first - point still holds: it is a first in two subjects - ergo the highest mark is a first.

I might be inclined to concede the point on starred firsts (although am reluctant to do so as you were merely talking about double firsts earlier and I think that you have rather fortuitously stumbled across this particular point ). And besides, it does make the point that this is only awarded by some institutions.

No, not willing to concede on the evidence so far. Keep it coming

H

I think you might be missing something, so let's do a quick audit trail, shall we?

1. Your questioning emphasis on "only a fifth achieved a first or higher"; the inference being that no higher grade was achievable.

2. My pointing out that it is, in both fact and deed, possible to achieve [regardless as from where, as neither you nor I made initial reference to the seat of learning, alma mater or, indeed, the constructs under which one might be awarded] a double first. Ergo: it is "possible" to achieve a double first.

3. It's a mathematical impossibility ot achieve over 100%.

4. "And the bit about double first - point still holds: it is a first in two subjects - ergo the highest mark is a first."

Again, no reference was made as to the number of subjects or subsids one is studying when taking into account that a double first is achievable until your later qualification; which doesn't detract form the fact that a double first is both possible and attainable.

5. On the contrary: I know people with a double first; so there is nothing fortuitous about me 'stumbling across' it. And again, your first pass emphasis on 'or higher' made no reference to precisely where one might be expected to achieve a double first; just as my reply made clear that they are, indeed, achievable.


Pray continue: I'm enjoying this

[Helen F H]

So i managed to get 50 - 59%. Bargain! I felt so guilty since i basically did no work for 3 years. One of my best mates went to every lecture, did all her work to the highest standards, but went to bits in exams. I can always remember looking up and seeing her not writing. Poor bugger got a non-honours degree in the end, she deserved far more really.

[Moray]

The Swiss have long adhered to numerus clausus for the more in demand subjects, i.e. medicine and law. For breadless gems such as ethnology, it is your problem if you want to study it.

The universities in Switzerland are inexpensive, although price rises are in discussion, due to the number of applicants.

The school system PRIOR to university amply cuts out the dead meat that would otherwise spend years at uni on taxpayers money studying something completely worthless for the job market, such as comparative philology or the like.

rant over
moray

p.s. And oh yes, I quit school at 15!

[Diving Dude]

Originally Posted by chrisch

Depends on what you want from your population/workforce. We do need more tradespeople so it would be useful to have post 16 education that gave people that chance (the guy who fixed my boiler charged £50/hr not bad I think)

The problem is the funding.

The problem is that it is not trendy for young kids to become tradespeople, its so trendy to say "going to uni"

Plus they might actually have to work whilst being trained.