Would you like Fries with that Degree?

[Mr T.]

Degree in surfing 'is devaluing academia'
By Andrew Sparrow, Political Correspondent
(Filed: 26/07/2004)


Ministers were criticised yesterday for encouraging the growth of apparently pointless degrees in subjects such as surfing.

An official from the Professional Association of Teachers spoke out at the start of the PAT's annual conference, which is expected to back calls for the Government to scrap its 50 per cent target for pupils going to university.

Peter Morris highlighted the BA in surf and beach management offered by Swansea Institute of Higher Education as an example of the sort of degree considered unnecessary by the PAT.

"Clearly, surfers need a qualification in safety but I question whether that needs to be a degree," he said.

"If it is to be a degree, surely it has to be in something that adds to the country's heritage and our nation, like classics. Surfing is a hobby, not a subject."

Mr Morris suggested that surfers could take the "excellent" degree in marine studies offered by Swansea Institute.

"You have to have a degree that is worth having. If it is not worth having, then the whole of academia is devalued. And I do believe that these degrees are devaluing academia."

The Government's policy of getting half of under-30s into higher education by 2010 was to blame for the rise of such apparently pointless courses, Mr Morris said.

At a time when Britain was short of plumbers and electricians, it would be better to invest in vocational education.

http://www.sihe.ac.uk/sihe/slts/basbm.htm

[Helen F H]

When i tell people i have a degree in environmental management i usually get the blank look of "eh".

However, just because you do not understand what i did for 3 years at uni, do not just assume that it is a useless degree.

I did the following units (off the top of my head)
Plant ecology
Statistics
Community ecology
Chemistry
Landscape management
Mountain environments
Coastal enviroments
Waste management
Environmental planning
Sustainable development

Plus a 12000 word dissertation.

Not bad really. Im not saying that surfing is a suitable topic for a degree, but dont write off all non pure subject degrees.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Porg

Not bad really. Im not saying that surfing is a suitable topic for a degree, but dont write off all non pure subject degrees.

But what else would you expect from the DT?

Chris

[CotoChris]

Originally Posted by Porg

When i tell people i have a degree in environmental management i usually get the blank look of "eh".

However, just because you do not understand what i did for 3 years at uni, do not just assume that it is a useless degree.

I did the following units (off the top of my head)
Plant ecology
Statistics
Community ecology
Chemistry
Landscape management
Mountain environments
Coastal enviroments
Waste management
Environmental planning
Sustainable development

Plus a 12000 word dissertation.

Not bad really. Im not saying that surfing is a suitable topic for a degree, but dont write off all non pure subject degrees.

How many doors it opened for you when applying for jobs?

[Helen F H]

For me - not many. But that was because i cant drive. Most people who wanted to work within the (rapidly growing) sector got a job relevant to the degree. Some did the obligatory travel the world, some went on to to an MSc.

[Mr T.]

The degree is losing its meaning
(Filed: 09/06/2004)


Universities desperate for students have caused rampant grade inflation. Frank Furedi says it has to stop

The public is all too aware of the doubts many educators, civil servants and business people have about the current value of A-levels. But there is far less public discussion about the dramatic inflation of grades in higher education that calls into question the way university degrees are classified.

With about 60 per cent of undergraduates now being awarded either a first or an upper second class degree, it is difficult to distinguish the outstanding student from the very average. It was far easier to evaluate the worth of a degree in the Eighties, when most students gained a lower second, and only a fifth achieved a first or better.

A government-backed task force is looking into ways of reforming the degree classification system so that it provides a more accurate picture of a graduate's achievement. Sadly, the exercise is likely to be a waste of time.

The question of how students are assessed has been discussed in the higher education sector for many years. This is also the case in the United States, where the introduction of new assessment procedures has been accompanied by a rise in grade inflation even more pronounced than in Britain.

Recently, Princeton, one of America's most prestigious universities, announced that it would combat the problem by proposing a cap on the number of A degrees that lecturers could award. According to this proposal, only – only! – the top 35 per cent of students in any course can receive an A-minus, an A or an A-plus.

The temptation to tinker with the degree classification system appears to be irresistible on both sides of the Atlantic. But instead of introducing a quota system here, the government task force is expected to recommend scrapping degree classes and introducing "transcripts" of the individual student's achievement.

However, the real problem has little to do with degree classification. Grade inflation is the inexorable outcome of the prevailing imperative of consumerism that dominates campus life. Universities face enormous pressures to attract and retain more and more students. There was a time when the majority of students had to compete hard to gain a place at a university. Today, this relationship has been reversed and, with the exception of a small minority of elite institutions, it is the universities that are competing for bums on seats.

Matters are made worse by the fact that academics are under constant pressure to increase the number of students taking their courses. Any lecturer with a reputation for running a difficult course or being a hard marker is unlikely to thrive in a consumerist-oriented campus environment. And those who fail to fall in line with the new culture face continuous exhortations from their managers to "mark more progressively".

"Are you telling me that no one on your course is smart enough to get a first?" was the question thrown at a colleague recently in one of the elite Russell Group universities during a quality assurance audit. Humanities academics have been told by such auditors that if they cannot give exam marks in the high seventies and eighties – something unheard of 20 years ago – then there must be a problem with their teaching.

The pressure to increase and retain "customers" has led to a culture that self-consciously flatters students. Assessment and feedback are taken so seriously that many academics devote much energy to ensuring students give them positive evaluations. Universities transmit signals that encourage students to believe that an upper second is there for the taking. Is it any surprise that, in a recent survey of 1,000 undergraduates, an astonishing 86 per cent expected to gain a "good" degree? Soon, campuses will be denuded of average undergraduates.

If the Government abolishes degree classification for records of students' achievement, it will simply recreate grade inflation in a new, more individualised form. Institutions that are reluctant to give low marks are unlikely to insert critical comments on a student's transcript. They will be anodyne documents, like the letters of reference that many employers no longer take seriously. And students will continue to suffer from the mistaken belief that they are all above the average.

Some of my colleagues believe that the devaluation of a university degree is no big deal. All that happens is that more students feel better because they gain a good degree. Unfortunately, this practice exacts a high price.

Challenging courses are made to be more appealing to students. Those who know that they can gain an upper second in their sleep are unlikely to stretch themselves in the lecture room and, therefore, have little incentive to work to realise their full potential. The average student loses a chance to do a bit better, and the gifted ones are discouraged from giving their best.

Instead of tinkering with the degree system, we ought to promote practices that endow students' achievement with real meaning.


Frank Furedi is a professor of sociology at the University of Kent

[Helen F H]

No-one in my graduation year got a first. Only a few got a 2.1, i, like the majority got a 2.2

When we got to give 3 years worth of feedback about the course, we all agreed that we wanted more assessed items of work. However, i found out we got the most assessed work out of the entire university!

[bottle_monkey]

It seems to me employers when looking at degrees will stop looking at your first degree and start looking at anything extra you have done (like a masters, phd etc.). This will lead to people being in education longer and longer and is that really going to help.

I personally think we should be cutting down on the people going to uni. fair enough go to university if u have the abillity to do so but far too many kids finish their A-level and go to uni cos it seems the easy option.

Maybe entrance exams for uni's?

[Helen F H]

I have to agree. Getting into uni is very easy, but it seems to be trendy for "everyone to have the right" to go, regardless of if you have the brains to hack it. This means that uni's suffer a lot with dropouts in the first 3 months. I know of one guy who did his 1st year 3 times as he kept on failing it.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by bottle_monkey

.....I personally think we should be cutting down on the people going to uni. .....

Depends on what you want from your population/workforce. We do need more tradespeople so it would be useful to have post 16 education that gave people that chance (the guy who fixed my boiler charged £50/hr not bad I think)

The problem is the funding. TB wants a 50% take up rate but will not pay for it. So the idea that the plumber is paying for the graduate in Klingon is bound to be controversial. All education should be free up to PhD and available when you need it. Like a woman returning after a break for kids etc. Or for unemployed people coming from one of the industries that aren't there any more - mining, shipbuilding and the like.

Trouble is no one will pay the tax so we are left with the current mess and the Tories abolition of the Polys means things like Golf Management are a degree, when maybe an HND would be a better qual for such practical subjects.

At least it gives DT journalists a chance to take the piss........

Chris
(look elsewhere for my quals and then whinge about cross-posting)
Ha.