Blue Hole death - a defence, sort of!.

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by Andrew H

Sorry I might not have been clear. It would be possible to legislate to stop commercial dive boats from putting divers within say 100m of any area where there is a depth of more than 50m. Qualifications of those divers is not necessarily relevant. Daconian yes, but more easily accomplished than more reasonable rules.

Andrew

sorry.... on another planet maybe

so exactly who is going to police this? and whos jurastiction is it anyway...

50m you say. well round here thats outside the 3mile limit and the 12 mile limit ....... err international waters then, or perhaps your in french waters.


There are already so many maritime rules broken every day and there are not the resourses to deal with the problem - I think your scenairo is unemforceable and therefor would never happen

[TX101]

Originally Posted by Finless

I would love to hear from anyone who has done a bounce dive.

This is what v-planner spits out:

V-Planner 3.43 by R. Hemingway, VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

Decompression model: VPM-B

DIVE PLAN
Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0m
Conservatism = Nominal

Dec to 60m (2) on Air, 24m/min descent.
Dec to 100m (4) on Air, 24m/min descent.
Level 100m 0:50 (5) on Air, 2.24 ppO2, 100m ead
Asc to 60m (7) on Air, -18m/min ascent.
Asc to 24m (11) on Air, -9m/min ascent.
Stop at 21m 0:47 (12) on Air, 0.64 ppO2, 21m ead
Stop at 18m 2:00 (14) on Air, 0.58 ppO2, 18m ead
Stop at 15m 1:00 (15) on Air, 0.51 ppO2, 15m ead
Stop at 12m 2:00 (17) on Air, 0.45 ppO2, 12m ead
Stop at 9m 2:00 (19) on Air, 0.39 ppO2, 9m ead
Stop at 6m 10:00 (29) on Air, 0.33 ppO2, 6m ead
Asc to sfc. (29) on Air, -9m/min ascent.

Off gassing starts at 34.4m

OTU's this dive: 19
CNS Total: 264.4%

2058.0 ltr Air
2058 ltr TOTAL

So it's do-able in theory... IF you have a superfast descent (24m/min) and a fast ascent to 60m (18m/min). If you use the default 12 down, 9 up then you wont have enough gas. (SAC set at 20L/min)

[Andy Phillips]

Originally Posted by Finless

The "selfish act" concerned only involved danger for himself.

Most of us at some stage in our lives have indulged in selfish acts. As a couple of examples - have you ever driven over the speed limit? Have you ever driven after having an alcoholic drink? If you answer yes then weren't you being selfish?

Also, unless you are doing something for someone else or relating to survival, what other reason than a selfish one is there for doing anything.

Who decides what is right or acceptable or selfish? Will it be you that makes that decision. At what point do you draw the line?

Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am stupid. I'd already worked that out for myself.

Thank you. Although I take it (from your opening sentence) that the good wish is withdrawn if I am doing something you consider unsafe or not acceptable?

Hi,

No disrespect ment, we've not met, I have me little "figure's of speach" the "was that blunt enough" was just one of those.

As for the take care, it is meant. I am no saint, but nor am I foolish, I think doing 100M on a single 12 takes stupidity to new levels, the Darwinian theory comes into play. I don't agree with what you wrote, I told you so. It was not meant to be a personal attack, just an exchange of views.

All the best.

Andrew

[Finless]

Originally Posted by TX101

This is what v-planner spits out:

V-Planner 3.43 by R. Hemingway, VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

Decompression model: VPM-B

DIVE PLAN
Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0m
Conservatism = Nominal

Dec to 60m (2) on Air, 24m/min descent.

.................................................. .....................................

OTU's this dive: 19
CNS Total: 264.4%

2058.0 ltr Air
2058 ltr TOTAL

So it's do-able in theory... IF you have a superfast descent (24m/min) and a fast ascent to 60m (18m/min). If you use the default 12 down, 9 up then you wont have enough gas. (SAC set at 20L/min)

Stuart,

I'm impressed. I hope you were able to C&P all that info rather than having to type it in!

I've never done a bounce dive but I suspect the ascent/descent rate would be much higher than those that V Planner quote. That's why I was hoping to hear from someone who had done one.

Let me know if you fancy another trip out on Inspiration - I hope to be out most weekends for a dive. If not me, the chances of someone from our Club being there are pretty good.

Rgds
Bryan

[Finless]

Originally Posted by imported_andyp

Hi,

No disrespect ment, we've not met, I have me little "figure's of speach" the "was that blunt enough" was just one of those.

As for the take care, it is meant. I am no saint, but nor am I foolish, I think doing 100M on a single 12 takes stupidity to new levels, the Darwinian theory comes into play. I don't agree with what you wrote, I told you so. It was not meant to be a personal attack, just an exchange of views.

All the best.

Andrew

Andrew,

None taken. No problem.

I always try + thank you. I agree heartily. Not taken as a personal attack - just vigorously defending my corner.

Pls feel free to exchange points of view any way you feel. In fact, I HAVE to support your right to do so (which doesn't seem entirely fair ) + my response was not intended to be directly adversarial, rather it was just my point of view ....bluntly put.

FWIW, I might consider doing a bounce dive to 100 mtrs on air BUT I would build up to it, would take shed loads of gas, would wear my FFM (can still breath if unconscious) and would probably be tied to something on the surface by a very stout piece of rope watched over by a strong person. 100 mtrs on a 11 ltr cylinder - no way!

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree over whether "shouldn't be allowed" is the appropriate response.

Rgds
Bryan

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by Skipper

Loads snipped - sorry

Just on this point....... .

all of the agencies depth limits are "reconmended" not "manditory"

This is the second time this month that a person has posted this. When i certify a PADI OW diver, that diver is only licensed to dive to 18 meters, it is not a recomendation.

If you are saying every diver can do as they wish, thats true, any clown can put on a set of SCUBA kit and jump into the water, its getting back out that takes the skill.

[Andy Phillips]

Finless,


I didn't say it shouldn't be allowed, just that it was stupid with little or no regard to the consequences for themselves or others.

I have been following the thread on another site, apparently the diver was on twins, so theoretically they had enough gas.

Got to say though, done 60M on air, great buzz, and felt like I was still able to function, not certain I would go to 100 though, it is a totally different kettle of fish and I would consider that a great deal more thought should be put nto a dive that deep. Nor would I even consider attempting it myself, under any circumstances. What on earth would there be to prove by doing it, to yourself or anyone else.

The Blue Hole is a very dark site that deep, strangely devoid of life, fish or otherwise, it would be very easy to become confused particually with the "nark" one would experience. I know at 60 it was considerable, but, it was light, in a very open wreck, and in my case, just felt euphoric. There were others on the same dive who felt stressed, they may want to comment but that is up to them

Andrew

[Andrew H]

Originally Posted by Skipper

sorry.... on another planet maybe

so exactly who is going to police this? and whos jurastiction is it anyway...

50m you say. well round here thats outside the 3mile limit and the 12 mile limit ....... err international waters then, or perhaps your in french waters.


There are already so many maritime rules broken every day and there are not the resourses to deal with the problem - I think your scenairo is unemforceable and therefor would never happen

The numbers I picked were arbitrary. I realise it would be unenforcable and would probably only apply to comercial operators anyway, let's just hope it never comes to that!

Andrew

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by darthmoll

This is the second time this month that a person has posted this. When i certify a PADI OW diver, that diver is only licensed to dive to 18 meters, it is not a recomendation.

Check the wording again please

Originally Posted by darthmoll

If you are saying every diver can do as they wish, thats true, any clown can put on a set of SCUBA kit and jump into the water, its getting back out that takes the skill.

Correct!

[Bunny]

Originally Posted by darthmoll

This is the second time this month that a person has posted this. When i certify a PADI OW diver, that diver is only licensed to dive to 18 meters, it is not a recomendation.

Sorry, but it IS only a recommendation. Padi certifications have no status in law. They may only be certified to dive to 18m, but legally they can do whatever the heck they like.