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| Surface Interval: Discuss Blue Hole death - a defence, sort of!. in the General Diving Forums forums: I have done a few dives and I tend to keep to shallow depths, not for a fear of going ... |
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I can not imagine being faced with the task of deliberately having to dive to recover a dead body. I am sure that if the dive had been considered too dangerous then the body would have been left where it was or, maybe, an ROV could have done the task. What I am trying to say is that the people who do these jobs are trained to do them and are not forced into them. The diver(s) who recovered the bodies would probably dive these kinds of depths anyway. As with our UK Lifeboat men, I can't imagine them thinking "oh no, we've got a shout". I am guilty of "supposing" here but I can't imagine anyone doing the job unless they got some satisfaction from doing it (even if it is just knowing they have helped the bereaved in having a body to inter and grave to visit)? Bryan |
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I'm not even going to comment on the analogy between a diving certificate and a driving license - thats been done in another place A diving certificate may be legally significant when; 1) "diving at work" because the HSE has a whole bunch of Acops and your at work not on a pleasure dive...rg a diving instructor who makes a commercial gain from intructing will be expected to have a qualification from a nationally recognised body, certiying him as competant in providing the training. Whereas if your mate asks you to show you how all these "bits of diving gear work" and you nip in off the shore to try them out - there is no commercial gain and no requirement for a certificate to train. (although if something went wrong there would be quite a few land sharks around who would attempt litigation on behalf of the family) 2)"club dives" - club dives are only club dives when approved by the diving officer and carried out within the governing bodies Safe Diving Practives(SDP) So, when a club dive consists of someone diving outside the SDP which includes maximum reconmended depths being violated and something goes wrong............ The DO and the committee may (note the word may) be liable So in summary if you are not on a sanctioned Club dive and not making commercial gain, then diving outside your qualification is a no issue. By the way, I recon about 50% of the divers on my charter boat are regularly diving outside whichever agencys recommendations! eg PADI AOWD reconmended 30m or PADI divers (excluding TEC REC) regularly undertaking DECO dives need I go on???? Moving on to insurance, best take a good policy out before you take up diving. Some allow you to dive within your qualifications.....easy answer - do a SDI solo dive course and that covers most things Once you get beyond what the insurance companies consider "recreational" and that seems to be once your deeper that 30m and undertake deco dives of dive with Nitrox or even Trimix!!! god forbid a rebreathers....... you had better read the small print very carefully. I was very honest with my insurers 5 years ago and they jacked the insurance premiums up so high I couldnt afford them. they eventually relented but changed all the life policies to specifically exclude any payout in the event that Diving was a contributing factor in death. regards |
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This is the one part about diving I am unhappy about. If I die and the insurance don't pay out then the significant other would be in a position of not being able to pay off the mortgage. Have I any faith in the insurance paying up if I die? Not really, I figure they will find some way to worm out of it if they can! Maybe having done one or two dives below my TDI cert level may already invalidate my insurance for the future? |
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| Insurance for me is one of the major reasons I don't dive below (well much below) my cert level. It is certainly the major reason why I got the Advanced Trimix ticket which gets me to 120M. As recreational divers, and this is with a lawyer friend of mine who works in corporate law. As long as we dive within our certified limits, are diving for recreational purposes only then we are insured. I informed my insyrance company that I went below normal recreational limits (30M as recognised by the companies) and was charded an extra £23.67 per year on the mortgage life insurance. The company insurance was unaffected. DAN also state in there insurance that you are insured to your cert level or if you are training to the level to which you are being trained. Andrew |
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| Bryan, Your point is well made, and I agree, most of the rescue services people I have spoken to (both professional and volunteer) do the job because they want too and not because thery're paid too. The vast majority of us who take part in sports and activities that carry higher risks do as much as we can to mitigate some of the risks. IMHO the guy who did the dive neither considered the risks to his own life nor the life of the person who would have to recover him. I agree that the recovery diver would have been equiped and trained for such a deep dive but this does not make it OK in my mind. Let me pose another question, if I was a newly qualified PADI OW diver and posted on YD that my next dive (my 9th in total) was going to be 50m on air. How would people on the forum react. John
__________________ A sure way to cure seasickness is to sit under a tree - Spike Milligan Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer Dives 2009 = 17 and working on it |
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In general the response would be - you 'kin numpty, don't be ridiculous! Especially if you were diving in the UK. This would also be my response. If I change tack and say, when I first learned to dive, I was best mates with one of the instructors and soon became friends with the other instructors. Before completing my AOW course I was doing the odd accompanied dive down to 35 mtrs (this was 25 or more years ago). Depth was not a worry and diving was easy, my breathing rates were better than some of the instructors (no stress)....... Can you see where I am going with this. Diving, to quote a phrase, is not rocket science. One thing we all have to understand is diving can kill you but I just think we (well, me specifically) get so caught up in the safety issue that we forget to have fun or be a little adventurous. I can remember feeling a bit panicky the first time I saw my computer exceed a 1.4 ppO2 and expecting an O2 hit any second. Maybe OW divers expect to self combust if they excede the 18 mtr limit In answer to your question - if you were good enough, accompanied by the right diver and the conditions were suitable - why the hell shouln't you do a drop to 50 mtrs and straight back up again. I know, I'm a disappointment to you all. |
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I think it's a difficult balance (especially in these litigious times) between safety and adventurousness (sp?). There have been occasions when I've woken up and thought: "hmmm, not so sure if I'm up for diving today, the viz was crap yesterday and today's dive is a bit deep, dark and nasty, maybe I'll just go back to sleep and skip the dive." However someone's told me to stop fannying around and get my kit on the boat and in the end I've had a cracking day out. Nowadays it seems that someone only has to find a grey hair and everyone's around them giving them a hug and asking them if they're up to doing the dive. (Well not exactly but you know what I mean.) Having said that, I'm quite happy for people to call a dive at any time. If you're ever diving with me and you want to pull out at any time above or below the water then tell me and that's fine. It's just that some of my best dives have been with people (much better divers than me) who have said don't worry we'll look after you. If I'd really said "No. I'm uncomfortable with this dive" then for sure we'd have aborted, but as I was in too minds anyway they tipped the scales. It's just getting that balance between safety / adventurousness right. And it's a tough one to judge. Hum. I've not explained myself very well in this post, but hopefully you get the general idea. Sorry if I'm wandering off topic a bit. Laters, Janos
__________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves DO of Hellfins |
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Regards Simon
__________________ "He's thrown a kettle over a pub. What have you ever done?" EUSAC - late 80's photos |
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| Simon, At least you'd wait until it was on e-bay, a couple of years ago on a climbing trip to Scotland I was volunteered to abasil down the top of one of the routes to check the ice conditions. No sooner than I was over the edge, hanging 700ft above the bottom of the corrie than the two gentlemen from Liverpool who were with me at the time, had dived straight into my rucksack to see if I had any nice shinny bits of kit they could "borrow".... A bit (lot?) off topic , sorry Bren..... John
__________________ A sure way to cure seasickness is to sit under a tree - Spike Milligan Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer Dives 2009 = 17 and working on it |
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