Rescue Scenario

[Hobby]

I think one of the main factors in in-water re-decompessing is that of the sheer no.of cylinders required as discussed before.I'm vaguely aware of the newer findings Matt refers to but not in detail.It refers to the danger of the re-compressed bubbles causing a problem,but this must be considered and weighed against the alternatives.As Heads says,being on the O2 at surface will merely limit the effects.What are the chances of doing more damage by continuing to off-gas in the water,I don't really know so can't say.
When working,much of the decompression was surface deco on O2.In effect this amounts to much the same thing,you surface,get in a chamber and get blown back down to start your deco.This as per USN tables which are generally reckoned to be about as safe as anything else at present(?)and is thus used favourably by the commercial and military ops all over the world.There are other tables and advancements of course which may eclipse this but outside rec.circles this practice remains the norm.(Bear in mind though that a chamber is in use anyway,not really an option for rec.divers)
As I said,it was an exception to the rule and my view was personal one.Given what I know I'd stick with my orig.decision to off-gas at least something.I'm not saying I would'nt modify that in the face of new info/experience that I become familiar with,but at present I'd have to go with my albeit limited knowledge in this difficult field and what I've experienced.Take care,Hobby.

[Dr Stevil]

OK answering this without reading the other posts so apologies for any repetition

My choice would be to send them up ASAP while staying for my own deco, pref after launching the two dSMBs to signal "trouble".
Reasons: the faster they are on the surface the faster they'll get medical treatment. plus no point in turning one definate casualty into two casualties by coming up yourself - it'll only halve the O2 supply.

Re:
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Originally Posted by [b

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Lets assume that this is a boat dive so you have surface cover.

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Having done most of my previous diving in a bsac (uni) club, we always use/esed surface cover even with shore dives, be they Abbs or Ellerton. sure it takes a litle longer to do the days diving but with lots of relatively inexperienced divers you want to be as safe as possible.
Having had to call upon &quot;our best buddy&quot; (RNLI) once due to getting swept out to sea from a shore dive (with two trainees) I can assure you that having surface cover on shore dives is not namby-pamby!

Out of interest - how many YD-ers are O2 Admin qualified?
how many have done Rescue management stuff?
Regards
Steve
PS having now read the other posts, I too _would_ risk a hit for someone very close to me, but I can't imagine a 30 minute deco penalty as I've never done a dive like that - yet. Also I can't imagine doing a dive that would incur such a risk if I was not quite 'close' to my buddy
 

(Edited by Steve W at 2:57 pm on Nov. 1, 2002)

In the refined scenario I think it would be throttles on full and be heading straight to shore with flares on the ready and an updated position being given every few mins.
The reason being if I am bombing on at least 20 miles an hour the Seakings on it's way towards me doing 70-80 where cutting the distance down.
If it takes 15 mins to scramble and maybe another 10 mins to clear the coastline we have cut the medivac time down a fair bit that's if the ride was reasonable and the patients could take it.
BUT if we where in the med no pot and plenty of boats about to help some spare gas it would be in water deco for me.
It's good that Heads up brought it up as it made me think about risks and a firm set of guide lines governing certain &nbsp;dives and equipment must haves.
As it happens I have read some good articles from an old Aqua Corps mag regarding EID thanks it would be in most cases back in the water for me.

[Big Steph]

Hi, just had to phone my mate regarding this interesting post. &nbsp;He's an ex Commercial diver(Saturation)and was my Instructor 18 years ago. &nbsp;
I hope I have got this correct, so don't quote me. &nbsp;

Do not recompress in water for the following reasons:

The bubble(s)may not have compressed fully, ie went back to solution. A bends victim would normaly be in the pot with a medic, who would monitor the victims condition, i.e still feeling some pain in a joint or wherever, if so, he/she would be 'blown down' or compressed further until all pain is aleviated, then slowly brought to surface which could take 15 hours or longer.

Another thing, a diver may be prosecuted if he did not do everything he could to save a life, something about &quot;Duty of Care&quot;. This of course would be for any legal eagles out there, and of course there are too many variables involved.

Hope this is of some help.

Big Steph

[John Gulliver]

The US Navy Diving Manual chapter on in-water recompression (thanks Hobby!) states that it should only be considered &nbsp;when &quot;there is no prospect of reaching a recompression facility within 12 hours&quot; and that &quot;In divers with severe type II symptoms, or symptoms of arterial gas embolism (e.g. unconsciousness, paralysis, vertigo, respiratory distress, shock, etc), the risk of increased harm to the diver from in-water recompression probably outweighs any anticipated benefit. Generally, these individuals should not be recompressed in the water, but should be kept at the surface on 100 per cent oxygen, if available, and evacuated to a recompression facility regardless of the delay. To avoid hypothermia, it is important to consider water temperature when performing in-water recompression.&quot;
For in-water recompression using air, Treatment Table 1A has to be used, which requires a total in-water recompression time of &nbsp;7 hours 52 minutes!! Anybody still want to try it? :sofa:

[Hobby]

Quite,one (of the most important things actually)that I neglected to mention when doing the above described &quot;surface deco&quot; in the chamber is that it was on O2,again as per.USN tables.(Actually I think I did,Christ I'm apparently having a bad day,think I'll give it a rest now!)
As said it is a last resort,but I'd still consider it unless I knew I was actually going to get to that chamber &quot;in time&quot;.
Geoff's post in particular brought up another often overlooked point that I brought up on Dnet a while ago.When requesting a helcopter to evacuate divers you MUST specify that is &quot;low flying&quot;.There have been cases in the Uk where divers have died as a result of this not being so.I had this drummed into me by one of ny ex-supervisors on a salvage op.When I looked into it I found there are different interpretations of what low-flying actually means.For eg. Casualty Doc's handbook at the time stated it as no more than 350 ft,which to me sounds a little high(?).I'll make a point of finding out from Anglesey what the rescue crews actually work to.Please bear it in mind though.Hobby.

(Edited by Hobby at 10:37 am on Nov. 4, 2002)

[Dominic]

Not an answer, but a question.

On some reports of deco, you hear of the recompression treatment being done over a period of days or even weeks of follow-up visits.

Why? Surely even the hardiest bubbles won't last more than a day or two?

[Hobby]

Here's a link which(especially for Dominic re.the above post)should make fascinating reading for any diver.The extended treatment,in this case a week is self explanatory.The more technical details however are not and one can only presume that as &quot;bubbles&quot;are responsible for the signs and symptoms it must be that in some cases they don't shift without extended treatment.
http://www.photo.net/travel/diving/d...ession-illness


(Edited by Hobby at 1:19 pm on Nov. 4, 2002)

[Dr Stevil]

Seems odd, I know people who did saturation diving (ie based around 30 metres for about 10 days), their deco started about 24 hours before surfacing with bouts of pure O2 every few hours, once on the surface they were on &quot;chamber watch&quot; for 24 hours, ie taking it easy with instructions to contact the medic at the slightest symptom (though not actually inside a chamber). After that there was no further deco concerns.
Regards

[darthmoll]

You are diving with a buddy and have both incurred a 30 min deco penalty. Your buddy suddenly loses consciousness and you start effecting rescue procedures. Do you:

The thirty min deco penalty would never happen, unless i had a chamber at the surface on standby.

1. Take him to your deco depth and keep him there for the duration of the deco requirements?

might do if it was safe, for me

2. Both surface immediately and risk getting bent?

Never

3. Go to your deco depth, ensure his reg is in and send him to the surface while staying to complete your deco and hope that the surface support will take over?

I am not sure if that would work.

4. Do something else?

stay calm, keep myself safe.


When i dive all my mates know my family, and i know theirs, when i dive with them i expect them to put safety first, even if that means leaving me behind to ensure they get to the surface alive, one death is hard enough without two. Our sport is a high risk pastime, i do not expect someone to risk death to save me, my buddies know the way i feel about this.

DM