Rescue Scenario

[Jay]

Ok - hypothetical scenario:

You are diving with a buddy and have both incurred a 30 min deco penalty. Your buddy suddenly loses consciousness and you start effecting rescue procedures. Do you:

1. Take him to your deco depth and keep him there for the duration of the deco requirements?

2. Both surface immediately and risk getting bent?

3. Go to your deco depth, ensure his reg is in and send him to the surface while staying to complete your deco and hope that the surface support will take over?

4. Do something else?

Lets assume that this is a boat dive so you have surface cover.

I can't think of any RIGHT answer for this one because I don't believe there is one. Your thoughts please!

[Big Steph]

Good question Heads Up.  I would risk bringing the unconcious diver to the surface at the correct rate of ascent, get the skipper to radio coastguard regarding deco chamber.

Reasons are:

1. The diver could have had a heart attack, therefore may be dead already.  However if the divers condition improves at or near the deco stop, it may be feasable to do stops.

2. Bends can be treated, death can't.

3. Definately not.

It would be interesting to hear responses from others regarding this dilema.

Big Steph.



(Edited by Big Steph at 1:14 am on Nov. 1, 2002)

[andy2tanx]

you've got surface cover, you have a dsmb in the correct emergency colour (yeah right!), so go for the surface, dump your buddy with the guys on top and head back down to finish your deco.

[MATTBIN]

Totally hypothetical for me as my Buddy is my son and we dont do deco, BUT I'd have to take him to the surface and risk getting a hit myself. However if it was not him and it was a mate I knew well then same rules. Some guy I just met on the boat, I think I'd make the call at the time and I'd have to know more about the penalty I was going to pay, its selfish but better one dead than two, trouble is my personal style is always to be the damnn hero and do the 'correct' thing which is obviously to get the buddy to the surface and attempt resuscitation. I think you'd make the call at the time and it would be difficult to evaluate it before the event. My boy went into a slightly quick ascent the other day and I instinctively grabbed him, we could then both of got a hit but I didnt even give it a moments thought.
Matt

[Lou]

I have to add the caveat that I would never (currently) clock up 30 mins deco (or any, deliberately) BUT I would take them to the surface.  It would be as slow an ascent as I assessed was achievable but there is no way i would send them to the surface unattended.  What if they lost their reg on the way?  If they are unconscious and floating face down on the surface those seconds for the rib to arrive could be the end for them.  You are also submitting an already compromised diver to an uncontrolled, accelerating ascent which is likely to add to their troubles still further.

Keeping a diver down to complete deco is too risky.  You could be just delaying the inevitable (that you have to get him to the surface), you could be killing them (by delaying necessary treatment) and all for the sake of risking a bend, which is treatable.

As for going back down....isn't that, in effect, in-water recompression?  Why bother, if you have O2 on board and one of you is heading for the chamber anyway?

Another interesting dilemma.  Will be good to see the range of views!

[Hobby]

IMHO,I'd bring them up.I take the liberty of presuming here that we're talking of a "straightfoward" OW dive here,if such a thing indeed exists,as opposed to being 1000ft into a sump etc.
Step one before you do anything is,STOP and THINK.Get the situation assessed rather than flying in feet first.This is common sense so I won't go over it again but it's easy to over react when stressed.
Basically I'd always bring them up.If the casualty is breathing then bring them up at a normal ascent rate (if you're stuck with that just ascend slowly and ensure you don't overtake your exhaled gas,use it as a rough guide).If the casualty is breathing it's tempting I suppose to make a breif stop,however I reckon our main duty is to get medical attention and as Steph says,you can treat a bend......
If the casualty is not breathing an emergency ascent is the call,what other option is there?
Either way the ascent should be assisted,as Bruce Springsteen said,"It's the price you pay!"Seriously speaking though,if we've planned our dives correctly we know where the nearset chamber is etc.and surface cover will immediately swing into carefully rehearsed action...won't they?
This is obviously breif,for more (better)reading on this please look at the below link,it's written by and for US Public Service(Rescue)divers but the basic info's there.Regards all,take care,Hobby.
<a href="http://www.rescuediver.org/rescue-tech/resc-toc.htm

(Edited" target="_blank">http://www.rescuediver.org/rescue-tech/resc-toc.htm

(Edited</a> by Hobby at 10:51 am on Nov. 1, 2002)

The Scenario is well intentioned but we can only learn or make decisions with specifics.
The scenario is much too vague so the answers will be vague and many so we can't really learn without a very narrow band of what are right or wrong.
Plus are you the diver or Divemaster/Cox / because if you're the diver and I am the COX/Divemaster my decision goes what ever you think. So who are we?
Let's have two realistic well-defined scenarios.
1.Where diving the Pilsidski 20 miles east of Bridlington.
When in a 6m RIB with VHF, SATNAV the full biz.
Twin 50hp Mariners 30knots full speed with our load of divers.
Plenty of Oxygen for two.
All divers have been down and have maximum decompression penalties.
No other boats in the area.
Sea state calm. Light winds.
RAF Leoconfield heliport, standby 15mins. 20 mins average contact time.
I hour to the pot.
Billy the techy wanabe surfaces with his unconscious buddy 30 mins deco to do.
Probable heart attack.  What do you do? You're the Divemaster the surfaced diver wants to go back down?
   





(Edited by Geoff Woodhead at 11:05 am on Nov. 1, 2002)

[Hobby]

Mmm,off the top of my head.Recall all divers,inform Coastguard and request LOW FLYING bird to medevac out casualties as both will need a table 5 at least,the casualty at this point for certain will also require medical attention.Bird's time is 20mins avge flying time.(Again I'm going to presume that there is'nt enough gas on board for the sufaced diver to complete deco,this would be largely irrelevant really as you would'nt want to sit there for ages even if you had.)Slap the casualty on O2 and proceed with medical assistance.As for your surfaced diver(the Buddy),you could theoretically send him back to 30ft for 15mins and hold him at 15ft till the bird's in sight(aprox 5 mins) while accompanied by another diver(or clipped to a line?).It obviously WILL NOT supplement his deco but it will allow him to continue to off-gas till he could be air lifted out.Alternatively you could put him on surface O2 too,but personally(I stress that!)were it me,I'd rather be off-gassing something.Problem would come if he wanted to re descend alone,you could'nt actually stop him if he was adamant.If you did ie.smacked him and dragged him in,he could potentially drag you to court esp.if he suffers any ill effects in form afterwards.There was a case in the Bahamas I think in the 70's/80's where a US tourist suffered a spinal bend.Unfortunately he did it as a hurricane hit the island and they could'nt fly him out.A military diver from a nearby RAF base collected all the cylinders he could find,tied the Yank to a dining chair and using a RIB wentout to sea.He then threw the paralysed Yank in the drink on a line and accompanied him while he completed a deco schedule.All in a hurricane.The guys lived and altough the Yank has a slight limp he's largely OK!Sadly I forget the names altough the story was covered in detail in Diver during the mid 80's.This is however the exception not the rule,take care all.Hobby.

[Jay]

Good answers and good refined scenario Geoff - the post was hypothetical to stimulate some debate and was more fixed around the dilema of whether or not to risk a bend yourself and to make us think a bit more about planning what to do if the unthinkable happens. I agree Geoff that while on the boat the skipper is boss but tbh, I follow Hobby's thoughts that, if I am risking a bend and we are waiting for evac anyway, I'd rather be back in the water off-gassing something rather than fizzing in the boat trying to LIMIT the effects by breathing O2.

[MATTBIN]

In water re/decompressing, Hmm. Few comments made about that somewhere else (Handbagnet) and it would seem modern philosophy suggests its a BAD idea as the recompressed bubbles cause significant problems when you come up for a second time. Obviously better than zilch, but O2 would &nbsp;be a better idea I believe. Not that I am an expert as I dont do deco (yet/ever?), just what I have read by several people.
Matt