OOA - Pony or second dv

[And]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Matt

In my opinion your first reaction should be your backup DV.

One reason is that you will probably have more gas available to you than a pony (if you have any more than 50 bar in your 12 ltr cylinder there is more gas than a 3 ltr pony). You'll then abort the dive. I assume no deco (cos you shouldn't be doing deco dives with a single cylinder, even with a pony (and thats another thread. No flames!!) Another reason is that assuming you have long hose/necklaced backup (widely regarded as THE best setup DIR or not) your backup is right under your chin. Remember you might not have much room, your buddy will be in your face panicking perhaps, and you need to be quick to settle things down. The most likely cause is freeflow so bubbles all over the place. Fumbling around for your pony reg is not desirable and may cause you unnecessary frustration making the situation worse.

Andrallans setup is the best if you really want to tank mount the pony, because it keeps the pony DV away from the long hose but I would rather sidesling it. Ideally it would be pressurised but off. Do a few drills to practice deployment. Its not very difficult and its good training for more technical stuff (should you ever do that). Also, you can take a sideslung pony off if you get stuck anywhere unlike a tankmount.

A pony is for YOU, a redundant air source. It is not for your buddy in my not so humble opinion.

Hope that Helps

WL


PS Matt get a long hose NOW!!!

[Stu Sheridan]

Not whishing to be facetious but....
When I dive a pony and single I can reach both valves just the same way as I do when wearing twins.
Mount your cyl and pony bracket (strap and clamps etc) in the right place and there really is no problem when enableing or isolating a pony. (I prefer to keep an SPG on each port.
The same rationale with twins except different config on the right post_indies+drysuit_).

Stu.

P.S Only one second stage off each first is necessary imho.

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wetlettuce @ June 06 2003,21:37)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]In my opinion your first reaction should be your backup DV.

One reason is that you will probably have more gas available to you than a pony (if you have any more than 50 bar in your 12 ltr cylinder there is more gas than a 3 ltr pony). You'll then abort the dive. I assume no deco (cos you shouldn't be doing deco dives with a single cylinder, even with a pony (and thats another thread. No flames!!)

This is accepted practice and not wrong BUT As a point of discussion, consider this.

Your near the end of the dive with 100 bar at 30m almoast redy to go up. Suddenly a diver takes the reg from your mouth and starts sucking furiously on your air. You are a bit flustered but go for the kneckleced reg and then you too start sucking on your air.

You take a min to sort your self out but other diver is sucking hard.

You are sucking 20 SAC but the other diver is sucking 40. So combined SAC 60. Depth 30m actual consumption rate 240lpm
100 bar in a 12 =1200ltr you have 5 mins to get up and out of the water.

If you swaped to your pony on a 20 sac and you left dodgy diver with your main tank on a 40sac you would have 7.5min to get up bassed on dodgy divers gas usage of a 12 at 100bar.

You have just increased his chance of survival by 50%

Obviously your SAC is depth variable so you should have more time than this but I kept it simple from the math point of view as its only 10am.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Another reason is that assuming you have long hose/necklaced backup (widely regarded as THE best setup DIR or not) your backup is right under your chin.

Absolutly right but there is nouthing stoping you riging your pony under your chin

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Fumbling around for your pony reg is not desirable and may cause you unnecessary frustration making the situation worse.

Ponys are easy to find side slung and the degree of fumbling is directly inversley proportional to the degree of practice

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]PS Matt get a long hose NOW!!!

Wise words indeed

Mark Chase

[John Gulliver]

Having tried most of the ways of rigging my pony set-up discussed in this thread, I've finally arrived at the following solution, which works fine for me:
Primary reg on an &quot;ocean longhose&quot;, i.e. a 150 cm hose ( I feel a 200 or 210 cm hose is overkill for us ordinary sport divers). The hose is routed under my right arm, across my chest and round my neck.
Secondary on a short hose under my left arm, attached to my TPII harness with a Velcro octopus holder. (I have a bungee necklace on it, for use on trips abroad when I don't have a pony, but regard this DV as more or less superfluous when carrying a pony, so have the necklace lying against the hose under a surgical tubing loop. I or my buddy could use it if necessary but I feel it would be unlikely in reality).
Pony bottle on my back, inverted, with an spg on a 6&quot; hose, the air turned on and the reg on an octopus-length hose, routed under my right arm, and necklaced with bungee. I cannot carry the pony side slung as it is too heavy (steel 3 L x 300 bar) and pulls me forwards and downwards. It is of course a disadvantage not to be able to read the spg but I've written &quot;Pony ? bar&quot; with indelible ink on a slate and tell my buddy to read the spg and write down the reading if I have to switch to my pony and show him or her the slate. Not ideal, but the best solution I have been able to come up with.
If I needed to donate air, it would preferably be with my primary – it's an attention-catching &nbsp;yellow DV on a yellow hose – and I would switch to my pony reg in the first place, even if I had loads of air in my main cylinder, for reasons already mentioned by others. With 810 litres of air immediately available in my pony, I would feel quite safe in practically all situations I can think of.
I definitely concur with those who advise Matt to get a longhose but would suggest that an &quot;ocean longhose&quot; is quite adequate for his and his buddy's needs and more convenient.

[malcolm smith]

My long hose is the same one for manifold twins as single and pony.
Same 2nd stage set up.
On a single :
Main reg on long hose, pony on necklace under chin. Pony cylinder sidemount on left, hose looped round back of neck under the long hose which deploys unobstructed.
Same harness as twins, in fact pretty much same everything.
Pony is turned on, just as both my twins are on, the rational of switching stages off is that you would tox on a rich mix at an innapropriate depth.
This good practise seems to have been strangely and fashionably transfered to our good friend, the pony with the same content as the main cylinder.
Have seen the debates re on/off in a few places, and can't see the logic of having an emergency breathable backup switched off.

Cheers, Malcolm.

[peter k]

Here's a late night pop question.
How many people/divers/folk can have actually put any of these theorys into practice. Not many I suspect!!!
If you can take reasonable care of yourself then &quot;IF&quot; you get into problems your pony buy's you an extra 10mins(at least) of time(Pony). This lets you sort you're own shit out without relieing on someone else(gets you out). By that time your calm(Your getting air), you buddies calm, and the pair of you are getting your arses &quot;out&quot;. The buddy should always have a reserve amount of air. Once &quot;YOUR&quot; pony is dry you go onto his/hers.
Ponies are &quot;Bail-out&quot;. If you need to seriously &nbsp;bail out then you are relieing on your buddys, but do all you can without relieing.
&nbsp; This is why my kit is set up selfish. If I can take care of meesel, then I wont be a problem, unless I ask.???
&nbsp; &nbsp; Cruel, I know, It's all about task loading. Some can handle it, some can't.

Peter