Diver standards

[John Gulliver]

PADI OW certification qualifies you to dive to a maximum depth of 18 m under conditions similar to those under which you trained. Assuming the instructor does his/her job, a newly qualified PADI diver should be quite capable of doing just that. I trained here in Sweden, in the middle of a very heavy toxic algae bloom – it has gone down in history owing to extensive fish death – and was, in my opinion, capable of diving safely here under those conditions. A diver who had trained on holiday in Australia wouldn't have been.
Judging by the incident rate – we have "only" 3 or 4 fatalities per year although it is estimated that we do about half a million dives per year – the training can't be too bad. I do think the schools should do more to persuade students to go on and do the RD course, though.

[tom]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Aug. 08 2003,15:21)]PADI is Open water, Advanced OW, then Rescue diver,(not sure where MFA fits in) DiveMaster, and IIRC Master Scuba Diver

MFA is/was a prerequisite for Rescue Diver, now been replaced by Emergency First Response.

Tom

[jasondrake]

Lots of interesting replies. I just posted the poll as I've recently been diving with lots of fairly novice, but qualified, divers off the west coast and was to be honest shocked and terrified by the general standard.

I agree that a lot is down to the instructer etc., but this was bad. I saw both BSAC and PADI divers, not just with entry level qualifications, with no knowledge of the most basic procedures- 3 incidents occurred in 2 dives as a result with me performing 2 rescues - and I wasn't in any way responsible legally or otherwise to even be there. Not much fun. (and not even a thankyou!)

Now I accept that you have to offer a competetive package to beginners with regard to cost and investment of time. But surely there has to be some basic level of ability that is absolutely vital to dive safely?

Should basic qualifications focus more on self-reliance with regards to dive planning? Perhaps if divers were instilled with an ability to judge the conditions at a site and to decide if their up to it, and to always err on the side of caution. Skills come with practice, and judgement and confidence come with experience - but there has to be a level of cert. that says 'this guy can make his own decisions and take responsibility for them' Or maybe I'm wrong. ?

[sprozman]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (dcrampt @ Aug. 08 2003,14:40)]I'm I right (or wrong) in thinking PADI allow divers to go from one course up to the next or is there a minimum number of dives you have to complete to qualify for the upgraders course?

Mostly right

An Open Water Diver can start their Advanced straight away, in fact I started mine the same day I finished my Open Water. IMHO it was a good move as it gave me experience of doing a drift dive, diving deeper, night diving etc all whilst still under supervision. You don't need any qualifying dives to do Rescue Diver either.

The silly thing is though that with just 20 dives (including all your supervised ones) you can start your Divemaster. That does seem blatantly riduculous to me.

[jasondrake]

And you can be a fully qualified, working PADI instructor - certifying people to go off and dive without supervision - after only 100 dives. Is that enough experence to teach someone? Is that even enough experience to be responsible for someone?

[Finless]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (LesleySS @ Aug. 08 2003,14:19)]I think the limits should be raised on when you can start training as a professional/instructor - at the moment, there are too many people throwing themselves into instructor courses when they only have a limited amount of experience under their belt.  This does not fill me with confidence at all!

I'm with you on that. Last year whilst on hols on Tenerife there was a trainee Divemaster who was at 30 mtrs with 50 bar in his single 10 ltr with 5 mins and growing deco on his computer.

I think the training (talking PADI here + I did mine 20 years ago) was fine. For holiday learners MUCH more emphasis should be placed on the fact that conditions are much harder in UK (etc) than in clear warm water etc.

I also agree with doing a certain number of dives before moving onto the next "badge".

I liked the PADI approach and it didn't seem as restrictive (not quite the right word but close enough) as the little bits I have seen of the BSAC club method. Having said that there is a lot of common sense in the BSAC approach (once again from the little bits I know).

[daz]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (sprozman @ Aug. 08 2003,15:49)]The silly thing is though that with just 20 dives (including all your supervised ones) you can start your Divemaster. That does seem blatantly riduculous to me.

Yep the great let's fast track to Instructor 100 dives minimum for certification.....

hmmm

And I do know of Instructors passed their IE abroad with just over 100 dives and only about 20 were in the UK and then they return to teach  

The problem is that people want to learn to dive quickly and cheaply, the OW achieves this..  One of the main problems is that people qualify with PADI and then do not have a club where they can gain experience - Their route is to fork out more dosh for more training (Some clubs exist but they are few and far between).

BSAC has the club route but many clubs cannot provide the training quickly enough for many people.

Daz

Shameless plug :-Actually if anyone is interested in the Bristol area, we are looking at setting up a informal club, where people can meet and arrange dive trips.  Any agency BSAC, PADI any qualification, any experience).  PM Wacker or me.  (Actually it was Wacker's idea)

We already have at least a dozen people who we dive with regularly and we are planning trips to Porthkerris (Aug bank holiday and October) + looking at trips next year to Farnes, Abbs and maybe Red Sea.

Obviously all trips will be posted on YD.

[budgy]

Learning the basics of non deco diving in a branch.
There is lecture material, most of it you won't remember and a lot of it you never needed to know.
There is water skills that after you learnt the basics, just take practice to get the hang of.
When you can demonstrate how to: assemble kit, clear your ears, clear a mask, clear a reg, control buoyancy, air sharing, life saving procedures your no longer a trainee and the club will be needing you to instruct in the pool.

[andy2tanx]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (daz @ Aug. 08 2003,16:14)]Shameless plug :-Actually if anyone is interested in the Bristol area, we are looking at setting up a informal club, where people can meet and arrange dive trips.  Any agency BSAC, PADI any qualification, any experience).  PM Wacker or me.  (Actually it was Wacker's idea)

We already have at least a dozen people who we dive with regularly and we are planning trips to Porthkerris (Aug bank holiday and October) + looking at trips next year to Farnes, Abbs and maybe Red Sea.

Obviously all trips will be posted on YD.

Nice one daz.  But why don't you just get those folk to join YD?  Getting people together from their own and different regions was what we wanted to do with YD in the first place...

[Mark Davies]

<font color='#000080'>This is inevitably fringing on the BSAC v PADI thing, but unavoidable given the subject matter.

As a PADI trained diver I cannot comment on BSAC but must say that from the outside it's always looked like it produces the more competent divers - eventually.

Daz hit the nail on the head though by pointing out the usual lack of club structure for PADI novices. This then leads to too many divers only ever going diving when they're doing a course. Before you know it they're instructors themselves having never gone on a dive just for fun.

I tried to avoid this by going only as far as AOW with the training and then just getting on with the diving. Three years later I'm going to start looking at Rescue Diver.

I think YD can have a huge role to play here in helping novice divers get out and dive. I've done almost all my diving this year through these boards and met many members all far more experienced than me. I've always felt welcome and never a hindrance - a real friendly attitude that I've found absent in some of the clubs I've had contact with.

So, if you think the novices are struggling a bit, don't moan about &quot;standards slipping&quot;.

Take them out - Help them out!