The complete diving system????

[Mal Bridgeman]

I read posts on here and other fora about the way people have developed their own diving system.

SSI have 4 parts to their teaching philosphy, Knowledge, Skills, Equipment and Experience, GUE have 3 Education, Experience & Equipment yet all we ever seem to talk about is the Equipment.

Generally people start with the standard Recreational Agency recommendation of a BCD, single tank, Regs, mask, fins which, although advised to go for comfort and fit, they trust that judgement to the Dive Store at that stage and tend to choose based on colour Brand awareness is pretty low at that time.

As their diving develops, they see things that other people have and think ooh I'd like that, either they think it's a good idea, or they have an experience which makes them think their current approach needs changing or they are just greedy and want something shiney and new, normally associated with the adoption of some sort of brand loyalty.

This leads to a plethora of kit configurations and of each one the owner feels quite passionate.....and will defend it because of how they went about building the config because there is a lot of the person invested in its creation. This is great for Internet fora because people will argue endlessly about why their individual choice is better than the other person's individual choice.

But the arguments are generally about equipment only e.g. inverts vs uprights, indies vs manifolded, crack bottle dSMBs vs oral/suit inflate dSMBs, reels vs spools and so it goes on.

Rarely do people discuss how the equipment integtrates with the other parts of the system they have developed .... e.g. buddy checks or planning, or in water positioning etc etc.

I am very supportive of the GUE approach to diving and dive training where these things (Equipment and procedures) go hand in hand to formulate a complete diving "system".

I asked a question a while ago what people liked about DIR and generally the responses were about the kit config and equipmen choices. It strikes me that considering individual elements could be missing the bigger picture of the value of a complete diving system.

What do others think?

Ok....as Mrs Merton would say.... "Let's have a heated debate...."

Mal

[Simon TW]

Yeah right, you want a ruck. Well read the many threads just like this one will be.

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

I am very supportive of the GUE approach to diving and dive training where these things (Equipment and procedures) go hand in hand to formulate a complete diving "system".

I asked a question a while ago what people liked about DIR and generally the responses were about the kit config and equipmen choices. It strikes me that considering individual elements could be missing the bigger picture of the value of a complete diving system.

Good for you! you found something you like. I'm pretty sure that we don't all drive the same car though. We are all different. However if halcyon sold cars eh?

[Finless]

Buddy checks? Come, come, you talk greasily; your lips grow foul.
Only joking - Shakespearean Insulter
I've got to stop reading that Shakespearean insulter. SWMBO was not too impressed when I told her what I was going to do to her oddsbodkins with my codpiece!

You are right. IMO, about the kit progression for quite a few divers but for the most part there is little difference? Well, apart from me and my gas switch and FFM and anything to be different attitude?


The aim of every diver is to be comfortable and as safe as possible ........... regardless of the lengths or depths under water?

[TerryH]

Well you are going in the right direction, but where we end up is often
the real problem.

Imagine two groups DIR and RID.

Both groups train in 3's in teams and both have perfected a configeration
and technique that suits them. The result is two teams of very good A1
divers.

So who is better DIR or RID?

Awnser = Neither.

As long as the DIR team dives together and the RID team dives together,
they are both as good and as safe as each other. No point in saying that
one bit of kit, routing or training is wrong, because in the other groups
enviroment it has plainly been prooven to be ok.

[Garf]

I'd seperate DIR and GUE for a start.

I think DIR has a lot to offer (but it's not the be-all and end-all), but I have mixed feelings about GUE. Sometimes I think they are a bunch of nepotic con-artists running the best laid out execution of a marketing ploy since Noah started selling rain macs. On the other hand, sometimes I think they are just a disorganised rabble who struggle to deal with anything that exists outside Florida, but mean well.

so my opinions vary.

However, TDi teach teamwork, communication and safety. IANTD do the same. PADI teach buddy skills. So do BSAC. DIR doesn't have the monopoly on anything. DIR divers go on and on about having to adopt the entire system, and I'm aware I'm one of those divers, but the truth is that's only a defence of DIR - The BSAC system covers just about every scenario, and has a hell of a lot more divers following it.

So, I remain quite pleased I've found a system for me, but I'm aware that it's probably got more to do with suiting my personality than it anything else.

I'm not sure about the onlu discussing kit bit Mal, I spend quite a lot of time nattering to YDers about how minimum gas works, ratio deco, the way we communicate etc. People are either interested, in which case I'll talk about it, or they are not, in which case I'll just shut uyp and let them get on with their thing. We've just had a belter of a weekend in Plymouth off endevour, and it was all the better for a complete absence of "give a shit" about what people were diving, or how they were doing it. Once WarmwaterDiver and Milldog realised I wasn't going to rise to the bait, that it

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Garf

I'd seperate DIR and GUE for a start.

I think DIR has a lot to offer (but it's not the be-all and end-all), but I have mixed feelings about GUE. Sometimes I think they are a bunch of nepotic con-artists running the best laid out execution of a marketing ploy since Noah started selling rain macs. On the other hand, sometimes I think they are just a disorganised rabble who struggle to deal with anything that exists outside Florida, but mean well.

so my opinions vary.

However, TDi teach teamwork, communication and safety. IANTD do the same. PADI teach buddy skills. So do BSAC. DIR doesn't have the monopoly on anything. DIR divers go on and on about having to adopt the entire system, and I'm aware I'm one of those divers, but the truth is that's only a defence of DIR - The BSAC system covers just about every scenario, and has a hell of a lot more divers following it.

So, I remain quite pleased I've found a system for me, but I'm aware that it's probably got more to do with suiting my personality than it anything else.

I'm not sure about the onlu discussing kit bit Mal, I spend quite a lot of time nattering to YDers about how minimum gas works, ratio deco, the way we communicate etc. People are either interested, in which case I'll talk about it, or they are not, in which case I'll just shut uyp and let them get on with their thing. We've just had a belter of a weekend in Plymouth off endevour, and it was all the better for a complete absence of "give a shit" about what people were diving, or how they were doing it. Once WarmwaterDiver and Milldog realised I wasn't going to rise to the bait, that it

Thou fobbing crook-pated malcontent!

Respect to Shakespear!

What's this minimum gas malarky then? Is it as obvious as it sounds ............... you came back with the minimum amount of gas possible hence ensuring the longest possible dive??

[Woz]

I think everyone should stop wearing twin 12's for a 10m bimble, stop wearing a single 15 for a 50m bimble and use the kit that's appropriate for the dive.

Oh and actually go and get wet rather than type about it.

[SoggyFox]

there is no complete diving system nor will there ever be a complete system, its all great until you strap a diver into the kit.

The whole kit thing for me is a non arguement, a blobs a blob fill it somehow with something and up it goes. I understand and agree with the GUE philospohy on team diving and buddy awareness and how its stressed. The rest of it for me is overkill unless your doing 10 hours or more in a cave, lets be honest does it really make a fecking difference where a torch/knife is placed, not really in the great scheme of things.

i'd prefer a good clued up buddy i know to a clone i don't.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Simon TW

Yeah right, you want a ruck. Well read the many threads just like this one will be.



Good for you! you found something you like. I'm pretty sure that we don't all drive the same car though. We are all different. However if halcyon sold cars eh?

Ok the heated debate bit was tongue-in-cheek....However your analogy sort of describes what I am thinking .... a car is sold as a complete system where the brakes are in proportion to the engine capacity and the fuel tank is in proportion to the fuel economy etc etc.

It's the system bit which is interesting me where the procedures and equipment are tightly linked.

I am not judging how others dive but interested in why the systemic approach of kit and procedures does not feature highly.

Mal

[tom]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

.. a car is sold as a complete system where the brakes are in proportion to the engine capacity and the fuel tank is in proportion to the fuel economy etc etc.

It's the system bit which is interesting me where the procedures and equipment are tightly linked.

I am not judging how others dive but interested in why the systemic approach of kit and procedures does not feature highly.

Mal

Because most people drive cars that are not as perfectly optimised as they could be, but still get them from A to B successfully?