Smoke Free Woo Hoo!

[dry suit diver]

went out on saturday to a few bars in Leeds. was not quiet by any definition. the best bit, clothes not stinking of stale smoke the following day.

long live the ban, just don't be too heavy handed about it.

[MarkP]

Originally Posted by Finless

I wonder what will happen when medical skills are able to accurately predict what major illnesses we will suffer later in life? Will legislation be drafted to prevent anybody from indulging in anything considered likely to increase their demise? Will Governments finally decide they have the right to dictate how we live every aspect of our lives?

We're there, right now. Insurance companies are desperate to use this information to load high rick people's premiums. The governement is (and has been, for quite some time,) looking at legislation to prevent them from doing this.

Silly government, silly! Stop meddling in the market!

[Finless]

Originally Posted by MarkP

We're there, right now. Insurance companies are desperate to use this information to load high rick people's premiums. The governement is (and has been, for quite some time,) looking at legislation to prevent them from doing this.

Silly government, silly! Stop meddling in the market!

What would you say if you were told you couldn't dive unless you had insurance? What would you do if you couldn't afford the insurance cover to be able to continue diving?

The market? Is this the end of the NHS as we know it? Is this the start of the transfer to privately funded medicine?

Not a reply specifically to the above author, but my general ravings directed to the YD masses:-

Is it the job of the government to inform its voters how they should lead their lives? Is it right that x% (over 12 million?) people who smoke should be made to feel like pariahs? The ultimate result of the current extreme anti smoking action (and start on alcohol) is that it shall be dictated that you ingest nothing that is deemed to of risk and, possibly, do nothing that causes risk? I don't particularly like racists or skinheads (as identified by the popular violent view of them) should I seek to get them banned? At what point do YOU draw the line? How far would YOU go?

If people didn't like smoking so much then there must already have been a market for non smoking venues so why didn't some entrepreneur get started creating some? Why does the government have to interfere?

Everyone knows the misery that addiction to drugs can cause to the addict, family and possible suffers from the resulting crime? Well, how many of you have ever indulged in recreational use of marijuana/cannabis? Have any of you ever taken Ecstasy or whatever those tablets are now called? Don't answer those questions publicly?

I'm kind of losing my thread and deliberately quoting extremes but all I can say is that I already do not like the amount of government interference there is our lives and I'm certain this is only the beginning? Take the HSE, it seems that every time there is a work related incident there is more legislation brought in?

What happened to "the balance" based on common sense.

I will be the first to admit I can't offer much in the way of fact to back up my comments but it all feels wrong to me.

Paranoid?

Yes, what a good track!



Woohoo! Success! I typed all that without any spelling mistakes! Result! Shame I couldn't find coherence or cogency!

[uwila]

Originally Posted by Finless

If people didn't like smoking so much then there must already have been a market for non smoking venues so why didn't some entrepreneur get started creating some? Why does the government have to interfere?

Why do smoker feel they have a God given right to smoke in public? In the past, non-smokers just put up with it. Pub and restuarant owners simply wanted as many customers as possible, and since the non-smokers all thought that they just had to put up with it, the busnesses didn't ban smoking. Non-smoking areas were always a joke, but used as a sop to those who didn't like to breathe someone else's cancer fumes. This legislation is popular; it isn't just the Labour Party who wanted it - a lot of people agree with it.

Smoking is significantly different from other activities in as much as smoking in pubs etc actively causes harm to all those present. If I go to a pub and get smashed, I might start a fight (highly unlikely) or I might puke in public (still unlikely), but so far neither of these has happened so I estimate the amount of harm my beering up has caused others must be nil. Smoking a few fags in a pub does harm to everyone present - every time it's done. I have had to chose those places I could go into because smoke irritates my lungs and makes my eyes burn, now I have the same choice of venue as everyone else. Also, I am much happier taking my little boy out with us for an early meal out.

Just my 2p

[Finless]

Originally Posted by uwila

Why do smoker feel they have a God given right to smoke in public? In the past, non-smokers just put up with it. Pub and restuarant owners simply wanted as many customers as possible, and since the non-smokers all thought that they just had to put up with it, the busnesses didn't ban smoking. Non-smoking areas were always a joke, but used as a sop to those who didn't like to breathe someone else's cancer fumes. This legislation is popular; it isn't just the Labour Party who wanted it - a lot of people agree with it.

True. Also, an awful lot of people disagree with it.

Smoking is significantly different from other activities in as much as smoking in pubs etc actively causes harm to all those present. If I go to a pub and get smashed, I might start a fight (highly unlikely) or I might puke in public (still unlikely), but so far neither of these has happened so I estimate the amount of harm my beering up has caused others must be nil. Smoking a few fags in a pub does harm to everyone present - every time it's done. I have had to chose those places I could go into because smoke irritates my lungs and makes my eyes burn, now I have the same choice of venue as everyone else. Also, I am much happier taking my little boy out with us for an early meal out.

What about breathing in ........................ this is not the point of my argument and this is a no win argument as each side is completely entrenched. IMO, those smokers in my circle of friends had already taken the message on-board and would go outside for a smoke where feasible. I only really drink in one place and they had put some jet engine thing in the place to extract fumes - the only time I've had a reverse ear blockage above water. Restaurants ........... well, that is the choice of the management and enforcing some more effective air conditioning might have been a bit less draconian? Did you ever make your feelings known to any restaurant manager and explain why you would never be returning to their establishment?

I'm not specifically arguing the smoking case but it is a prime example of over heavy handedness to ban it completely when, IMO, it would be much fairer to allow establishments to cater for either. Then, if you don't like somewhere you have a choice to go elsewhere.

Another pet hate of mine is children in restaurants and pubs. How would you feel if my POV was the majority? I take the choice to either put up with it or go somewhere where there aren't any.

In my opinion the government is interfering far too much in everything and the "war on terror" is giving them the perfect opportunity to gather more and more information on everyone and poke further and further.

Just because you are greatly in favour of this particular decision does not necessarily mean you will be so happy in the future?

Anyhow, you either believe/understand/sympathise or you don't. Smoking is a poor subject from my POV because of the strength of feeling involved which keeps dragging everything back to a "I'm glad it's banned POV" which is fine but is not the point I'm trying to get across.

[uwila]

Originally Posted by Finless

Restaurants ........... well, that is the choice of the management and enforcing some more effective air conditioning might have been a bit less draconian? Did you ever make your feelings known to any restaurant manager and explain why you would never be returning to their establishment?

There it is again - my only choice was to not go out. Yes, I mentioned smoke as being a problem many times, but the sad fact is that I was treated as if I was a weirdo (possibly true...). Smoking was allowed, so they allowed it!

Originally Posted by Finless

I'm not specifically arguing the smoking case but it is a prime example of over heavy handedness to ban it completely when, IMO, it would be much fairer to allow establishments to cater for either. Then, if you don't like somewhere you have a choice to go elsewhere.

There wasn't really a choice. Many times we had gone out to nice places only to have smokers sit at the very next table and light up as they read the menu.

Originally Posted by Finless

Another pet hate of mine is children in restaurants and pubs. How would you feel if my POV was the majority? I take the choice to either put up with it or go somewhere where there aren't any.

I agree with you, which is why we always go out early when we take young Eric the Fish with us. However, the presence of a small child does not directly cause you ill health...of course, ill behaved little brats should not be allowed out. Rather, their parents should excercise controll over the little darlings. Anyhow, aren't children banned from pubs unless they're having a meal?

Originally Posted by Finless

In my opinion the government is interfering far too much in everything and the "war on terror" is giving them the perfect opportunity to gather more and more information on everyone and poke further and further.

I'm with you 100% on this, but I don't think the ID cards/electronic passports are in the same league as this measure.

Originally Posted by Finless

Just because you are greatly in favour of this particular decision does not necessarily mean you will be so happy in the future?

I'm not too happy about much of the recent legislation! I'm fairly certain I'll always support no-smoking in public places.

I sympathise with smokers, I just don't want to breath the smoke. If there is any way this can be done, then I'm happy for smokers to smoke in public.

Cheers, Chris