Drysuits somebody!!!!

[MJH]

I think (but I'm not expert) because it applies to the management of health & safety it applies to anyone representing the dive school.

Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify this?

http://www.england-legislation.hmso....0070019_en.pdf

[Narked@50]

I don't see the differentiation of suits to be the issue here?

We all know the differences, pros/cons etc. of both types of suit and modern semi drys can be very good, not that I would buy one for the UK mind .

Surely the BIG question is about the responsibility on the instructor to his students welfare, and more importantly what if it all goes horribly wrong?

The condition of the student going on a dive is the key point here, whether they wear a semi dry or dry suit is of little relevance, the instructor has a duty of care to make sure they are safe, and from experiance there are many instructors out there who don't give a dam putting pounds before safety.

James

[Scubee]

yes, the instructor and dive school have a duty of care to the student.

Sadly, diving is a pastime that everyone wants to do as cheaply as possible. At the moment, it costs about £450 (I think) depending on where you go.

It can be the case that a good fitting semi can be as warm, if not warmer, than a badly fitting dry suit - particularly if one of seals is not a good fit. Drysuits tend to be less forgiving in the fit than semis. This means schools don't need to have as many different suits hanging around not getting used.

More suits would mean more overheads, which would mean it costs more money to learn.

Yes, there is the club route for learning - but it would be the same issue, only the club membership fees would need to increas to pay for more kit (or do clubs rely on their students buying their own kit before they go into open water?).

(I am not advocating letting students freeze, but pointing out why schools make the decisions they do - basic economics)

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by MJH

I think (but I'm not expert) because it applies to the management of health & safety it applies to anyone representing the dive school.

Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify this?

http://www.england-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2007/pdf/ukpga_20070019_en.pdf

That would be logical, but could be problematical in other industries. I don't know the answer, unless the HSE or someone has drawn up a COP which tend to be written in plain english rather than legalise

[TerryH]

About 3 years ago we noticed the LDS had aquired some drysuits to
complement the large number of semis. When asked, they said that it
was no longer acceptable to put clients in semis mid-winter. Summer fine,
but winter no.

That set alarm bells going and we also switched to drysuits. It's taken a
bit of work, but we now have well over 20 drysuits, mostly decent Otters.

IMO if you dont provide the correct exposure protection, you are not
discharging your duty of care. Makes no odds if you are pro or amatuer,
it has to be right.

Seen way to many students almost hyperthermic while the Instructor
has on a toasty drybag. That's just plain wrong.

[Richard Mason]

How do you define a semi? The semis I see here are crappy 5mm or 7mm one piece things that I'd view as about as much use as tits on a bull in this part of the world (11C to 18C).

By contrast, the wetsuits sold here are 7mm or 9mm farmer johns with hood attached jacket, the most popular being Probe which are used locally by divers on the salmon farms diving year round in somne very chilly waters, albeit not quite as cold as 5C but certainly down to 8 or 9. The salmon farm divers swear by them.

What's the UK version of a semi look like?

[steveharriss]

Richard, these sorts of suits are fairly popular at lots of sites in the UK.
Waterproof - Sweden

[CALLISTO]

Some good replies....The reason I asked the question ....I work offshore producing oil and Gas....and You have to keep yourself so watertight as your very accountable for everything you do .

I just found it hard to understand That what I saw yesterday dive Schools are prepared to leave them so wide open should anything go wrong ..Having Students in the showers shaking uncontrollably is not good

Obviously diving is to be endured rather than be enjoyed


Thats it really

Andy

[Janos]

Originally Posted by CALLISTO

....and You have to keep yourself so watertight as,,,

Then you need a drysuit. A semi will let in water.

I was at Vobster yesterday, and there were some hardy souls in semi-drys. However I think these guys had a few dives under their belt (hard to judge if they were trainees or not - I only saw them on dry land). They didn't appear to be cold post-dive, and one even got changed in the car park (and yes he did know where the changing room was!)

In general, I think that semi-drys can be safe, but uncomfortable. I explain this to trainees, and say that I wouldn't get in the water in a semi-dry. But it's their choice.

Janos

[MJH]

Originally Posted by CALLISTO

....and You have to keep yourself so watertight as your very accountable for everything you do .

Imo that’s where a lot of dive schools / instructors / dive masters are almost naive in their understanding of H&S Law which differs from the usual concept of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ by clearly stating that if anything goes wrong you have to be able to prove your innocence