Why the reluctance to call for help?

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Andy the Coastie

....
I do not want to see a decision made by a diver on the day, thinking he/she is right and do not involve a chamber or rescue service...... ...

Tell us then, in your professional opinion, as a coastguard, which decompression model we should be using and at what point does a deviation from the plan become a "reportable incident" for want of a better term. (I accept you are happy to record such routine traffic and take no action on it - that is a given)

Chris

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Andy the Coastie

MARK,

Can I ask,,,,, that if you are in this situation and between you and the suspect bent diver and you advise that no cg or heli is required , and further on with time during the evening that the diver needs a chamber quickily,,,, but ends up not diving for a while,for ever or even ending up in a wheelchair.

Are you personally insured against anybody suing you ?

rgds

What you think I jump up and get involved with a perfict stranger?

I wouldent even get involved when Mark got bent. I left it to his buddies to make the call. None of my buisness.


The people ill assist want it this way and every one on the boat knows that.

So f#ck um sue and be dammed.

ATB

Mark

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by AM1

No, don't put words in my mouth, I did not for one second suggest that there should officials on dive boats. On properly organised deep trips with decent logistics, there is a standy diver and logistical support. That is not the same as "a diving official".

Do you think it reasonable that a possibly bent diver misses stops and is first back on the boat then refuses advice (because of denial) then his buddies stand back after doing a poxy few checks and don't even make a phone call?

You cannot surely think it is reasonable that a diver decides on the basis of some noddy checks, whether or not to make a phone call and at least line up the ducks, just in case?

With DCI, my posts reflect the bitter experience of seeing first hand what happens when people don't get treatment. Missing out on treatment and sustaining damage and then making it the Coastguard's emergency, because of slack fools that are too lazy and incompetent to make a call is a travesty.

Get real.

If I took this attitude all the time Id have been on a dozen or more chopper rides by now instead of the zero I have had so far.

Fact is I have had the pains the niggles and sucked the 02 and been pretty convinced I was bent but decided to monitor the situation. If I had called in the symptoms I had, I have no doubt in my mind that a professional would want me stood in front of him so he could do further checks.

However my cautious approach has paid off so far and to date its turned out i wasn't bent after all.

This includes three events where i was so convinced i drove straight to Whips Cross just to be passed fit. Once after being blown down first.


No if thats not your bag its not a problem. If i dive with you I will follow your instructions and call it in for any infraction of the planned dive no matter how small. If you tell me your fine ill inform the diving doc your in denial and therefore showing signs of a neural bend and ill insist they get you to a pot just in case


ATB

Mark

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Andy the Coastie

It's the same for any diver,,,,,,,, give us the information and we will get the right result for you....

Define the right result?


Because if you'r saying that for that niggle in my elbow its getting me to the pot an hour or so before I could do it under my own steam, then sorry its not the right result for me m8

ATB

Mark

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Define the right result?


Because if you'r saying that for that niggle in my elbow its getting me to the pot an hour or so before I could do it under my own steam, then sorry its not the right result for me m8

ATB

Mark

Ermm,,, I'll put it another way .

if a diver on a mobile or a skipper on a VHF puts in a call of concern ( which it is or they wouldn't have called ) , WE, the CG put you in touch with a chamber unit.... IT'S THEM that decide the course of action to take, as they don't have lifeboats or choppers.......however , if they say you need treatment, and have to be flown 100's of miles to a pot ..... US as coastguard's could ask a Royal Naval vessel / offshore dive support vessel or even a oil rig under tow in the area if the pot was available for a civvie diver, ..... so there isn't a major problem with marrying up the diver with his kit / car ...


What i'm saying is that we have many resources that Joe Public won't have access to.


A few years back a Dover SAC diver was nearly flown o mine sweeper at anchor off Margate to be potted, but him and the buddy were driven to Whipp's cross instead......

[Ferg3333]

I was up in Scapa when a mate popped up from the Strathgary missing 20 mins of stops, an hour of o2 later and a little concern from the diving doc on the boat and he was fine with no symptoms.

Later in the week, my buddy got tangled in his dsmb too far away from me at 30m (40mins of stops) to get to him to cut it and he was at the surface, boat saw him, he just swam back down to 30m and completed his stops and padded the shallow stops out to be cautious.

Back on board the diving doc wanted to pot him, even after re doing his stops he sat on o2 for an hour and was asymptomatic so we didn't pot him, just didn't let him dive for 24hrs.

Whether this is right or wrong, everyone was happy with the call.

Who should make the call? If someone is symptomatic then anyone, if someone is o2 just for a niggle and puts themself on o2, then its the buddy pairs call. But I guess its the skippers call ultimately as its their boat and they could be to blame for not calling the CG.

So unless you have a pre discussed emergency plan for the group that the skipper is informed of, and happy with then the final call should be with the skipper - unless someone else requests the CG be called.

I had a mate who was stuck on the side of a mountain for 2 days, he waited to see if the conditions cleared before calling in mountain rescue so I guess its just human nature.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Andy the Coastie

....
if a diver on a mobile or a skipper on a VHF puts in a call of concern ( which it is or they wouldn't have called ) , WE, the CG put you in touch with a chamber unit....

No one, I don't think, is questioning that part of it or saying anything other than the HMCG are the correct channel to access the medical services whilst at sea. I've always found them (HMCG) to be very helpful TBH.

The question is the need/wisdom of calling something in that is being "adequately managed".

In fact the debate really is whether we mere divers can manage anything at all or not.

Chris

[dublinbay]

OK, we have a member of HM Coastguard telling us it`s ok to make the call. We have others who steadfastly refuse to make the call because its not their business.
So, let me see, if I see smoke , a small bit of smoke, nay, a whisp of smoke coming from a bedroom window, do I make the call or not ???
This is a no brainer.
`All it takes for evil to thrive is for men to stand by and do nothing`.
The ostrich mentality is alive and well, apparently.

[thehuntsman81]

Originally Posted by chrisch

More nanny state then?

I take it you approve of the idea of having a "responsible official" on all dive boats? Maybe we should submit our dive plans in writing to the "relevant bodies" and get permission to dive first before going off on this crazy enterprise?

Bollocks.

Chris

There is a responsible official on every boat regardless of it being a dive boat or not and his name is "The Skipper"

People often forget that the welfare of a vessel and its crew is the responsibility of the skipper and his decision is final... not open for debate among his paying crew! It is the skipper who will end up in court if it all hits the fan!

I have skippered sail boats all over the world and I don't care what bol**cks my crew feeds me... it is my vessel and if I have the slightest doubt that my crew and I require assistance I will ask for it. I don't care if you have paid good money to be on this boat, refuse to accept help or refuse to get in that chopper.... cos you ain't gotta a choice... if I feel it is in the greater good of my vessel and crew that you get off and get the help you need.... you are getting off... period!

Most of us pay our taxes which in turn pay for one of the best coatsguard rescue services in the world! Why on earth would people be embarrassed to use somthing they have paid so much for? If your house is burning down, do you stand outside and say "I know lets just hold on for 5mins and see if it goes out before we call the fire brigade"

The best thing any diver or buddy can do is give the skipper truthful and factual information. So what if he choose to call in his position to the coastguard, they are professionals, they have all the resources to hand that the skipper doesn't and it is what they are paid to do, by us, for 365 days of the year! Trust me they ain't gonna come running with helicopters because someone bent there Suunto!

However the beauty of what you have just done by telling the skipper the truth is you have set the wheels of a potential rescue in motion. He can make the decision to head for a dive site closer to shore, people on land are now aware of the vessels situation, its position and are already thinking about what they are going to do if he calls back and declares an emergency. These actions in themselves have the potential to save a life especially when that guy/gal with the bent Suunto keels over and stops breathing on his vessel. Those extra minutes saved could be the vital extra minutes required to save this persons life.

So next time your skipper is being nosey and is asking why you are breathing oxygen and rubbing your aching joints... tell him the truth... don't be to proud to ask for help, don't be embarressed that you may have gotton ill, don't worry about taking that unpleasant trip in a glorified flying ambulance.... just be dam thankful that there are people in this day and age that actually care whether you live or die!

Happy diving

[dublinbay]

Originally Posted by thehuntsman81

There is a responsible official on every boat regardless of it being a dive boat or not and his name is "The Skipper"

People often forget that the welfare of a vessel and its crew is the responsibility of the skipper and his decision is final... not open for debate among his paying crew! It is the skipper who will end up in court if it all hits the fan!

I have skippered sail boats all over the world and I don't care what bol**cks my crew feeds me... it is my vessel and if I have the slightest doubt that my crew and I require assistance I will ask for it. I don't care if you have paid good money to be on this boat, refuse to accept help or refuse to get in that chopper.... cos you ain't gotta a choice... if I feel it is in the greater good of my vessel and crew that you get off and get the help you need.... you are getting off... period!

Most of us pay our taxes which in turn pay for one of the best coatsguard rescue services in the world! Why on earth would people be embarrassed to use somthing they have paid so much for? If your house is burning down, do you stand outside and say "I know lets just hold on for 5mins and see if it goes out before we call the fire brigade"

The best thing any diver or buddy can do is give the skipper truthful and factual information. So what if he choose to call in his position to the coastguard, they are professionals, they have all the resources to hand that the skipper doesn't and it is what they are paid to do, by us, for 365 days of the year! Trust me they ain't gonna come running with helicopters because someone bent there Suunto!

However the beauty of what you have just done by telling the skipper the truth is you have set the wheels of a potential rescue in motion. He can make the decision to head for a dive site closer to shore, people on land are now aware of the vessels situation, its position and are already thinking about what they are going to do if he calls back and declares an emergency. These actions in themselves have the potential to save a life especially when that guy/gal with the bent Suunto keels over and stops breathing on his vessel. Those extra minutes saved could be the vital extra minutes required to save this persons life.

So next time your skipper is being nosey and is asking why you are breathing oxygen and rubbing your aching joints... tell him the truth... don't be to proud to ask for help, don't be embarressed that you may have gotton ill, don't worry about taking that unpleasant trip in a glorified flying ambulance.... just be dam thankful that there are people in this day and age that actually care whether you live or die!

Happy diving

Green incoming. I`d dive from your boat anyday!