Why the reluctance to call for help?

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by sas steve

If only it was that easy to diagnose a bend we would avoid a lot of call outs.
Breathing O2 and waiting to see what happens just delays a proper diagnosis by a qualified Hyperbaric Doc and experienced Hyperbaric team.
that delay can result in permanent injury and makes our job that much harder.

Having time to self analyse allows you to make your own descisions which can be clouded by the seriousness of a real bend. Denial is a major factor in many cases we treat. By having correct and rapid diagnoses no-one loses out and everyone is happy. The skipper has met their duty of care, The CG have done their job, the diving Doc has made a diagnoses and if required we get to see the positive results.

If everybody called in every niggle then you would be inundated with potable divers.

The buddy or other trusted divers are integral to the analisis. I would involve them ASAP.

How does the neuro exam i do differ from the one you do? I have had it done profesionaly a few times and its not rocket science. Three times I have been potted "just to be on the safe side"

No ofence, but I have had countless ocasions where i have gone on 02 after a dive due to a minor pain and to date, I have never had to call the chopper

I am perhaps jaded by an incident with the diving doctor on a boat and I had to repetedly insist / demand that they got the choper out for the bent diver.

The so called diving doctor told us that due to the fact the diver had no missed stops on his computer and made a normal ascent from the 30m dive it was probably nothing. He said to cruse back and put the bloke in an ambulance and send him to A&E.

I knew the diver was badly bent and would not accept this so I demanded a helecopter

In the end we reached a begrudging compromise and called in at another harbor (Eastborn i think) to meet the chopper there.

The diver was later diagnosed as have a serious neural bend and he never dived again.

Incident was on 21/09/2002 Girl Grey Mike Snelling was the Skipper if you want to check it out.

I conclude from this the best placed person to analise the condition of a diver in relation to DCI is his experianced decompresion diving dive buddy.
I also conclude it would be better if people who dont feel confident doing such analisis on the boat should stick to club trips with an experianced Diving Officer who does.

ATB

Mark

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by TerryH

What an absolute load of crock.

Every time I step on a boat and go diving, there is always the chance
(thankfully a small one) that i'll get bent and end up in the pot. Who gives
a **** if I end up 300 miles away. All that matters is that i'm seen,
diagnosed and sorted.

The ONLY criteria is if there is even the mere suggestion that there may be
a problem. A simple call to the CG wont call out the calvary, but it will alert
them to the possibilty that you will be calling a bit later if symptoms get
worse.

As soon as apre-incident logistics are a factor in making the call, sooner or
later you will make the WRONG call.

That's just plain dumb.

He asked for a reasion I gave him an honist answer. Thats my reasion.

As i said above, Last year my average dive was 2 to 3hours in the water mainly on deco. I did a grand total of zero no deco sea dives in the UK les than six of my dives wre shalower than 40m deepest 79m

Id say at a guess I went on 02 after a dive 5-6 times last year. I didnt call the chopper out once all but i could have done for probably four of the six ocasions.

If poping down to get a DCI pill was so easy i wouldent think about it, id do it just in case but it most definatly is not easy. So I do think hard about it before I commit.


Not a popular answer to this question, but the truth among a fair few experianced deco divers.

However i again stress that if in doubt get someone who knows what they are doing to asses you.

ATB

Mark

[Helen F H]

I guess we are so lucky to have a chamber about 500 yards from the harbour and a diving doctor on call 24/7.

I would say the main reasons i have seen are:

Embarassment. Its like giving someone a big sign to wear round their neck saying "i screwed up", even if they did nothing wrong. A bend is a stigma, like it or not.

Denial. Bends (esp skin bends) are everything but - bee sting, midge bite, bruises, allergy to something, sun burn (ho ho this is Orkney darling). People dont like to admit they are ill with something that is seen as embarassing.

Loss of diving. If it is a bend you aint going to be allowed to dive for around 6 weeks. That can mean missing an awful lot if you have a busy season lined up, plus obviously sitting out the rest of the week up here.

Just my 2p.

[malcolm smith]

Some reasons not to tell anyone on the boat something feels wrong post dive.

You have to admit to yourself something is wrong. This is the really tough one, cos it may be nothing------------------

Losing 'control' of the situation.

Knowing that your normal post dive routine, whatever it is, is not going to happen.

While there is doubt in your own mind, I guess a lot would hope nothing was really wrong, and that you can do what you always do after diving.

Once you tell someone--------everything has changed.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

If everybody called in every niggle then you would be inundated with potable divers.
....

I fear Mark, this is the road that some folk would take us down. "Just to be on the safe side" you understand.

The problem is if this coincides with a "just to be on the safe side" view that the duty diving doctor takes that some treatment or at least an inspection is prudent. Now "just to be on the safe side" the CG calls out the helicopter instead of waiting for the return of the boat.

Hey. You know what? "Just to be on the safe side" lets quit diving shall we.

Chris

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by malcolm smith

Some reasons not to tell anyone on the boat something feels wrong post dive.

You have to admit to yourself something is wrong. This is the really tough one, cos it may be nothing------------------

Losing 'control' of the situation.

Knowing that your normal post dive routine, whatever it is, is not going to happen.

While there is doubt in your own mind, I guess a lot would hope nothing was really wrong, and that you can do what you always do after diving.

Once you tell someone--------everything has changed.

Pretty much summed up how I felt in a nutshell there mate, good post.

Safe diving,
Steve

[TerryH]

We are also lucky in that we have very good ties with the local chamber
and in fact are running our annual trip there on Thursday :-)

The one thing that always get's me at these visits are the stats. Not
anecdotal, but real stats gained by the UK chambers themselves.

Before these visits I would have thought that the worse "potted" groups
were newbies and commercial divers. Nope not even close.

Dispite doing some serious schedules, commies have very few actual
incidents of DCI. Why? Because they've learned that even the slightest
twinge = chamber. They get fixed quick, so long-term and therefore
earnings prospects are good.

Again with newbies or inexperinced, the chances of DCI are low. That group
are more likely to have lung expansion/barotrauma incidents. Dive/depth is
rarely enough to cause actual DCI unless its medical (PFO).

Yep the biggest problem area for DCI and long-term damage is a specific
demographic of an experienced diver in the 35-45 age group. These
guys/gals have done the easy stuff and are well into other types of diving,
but not quite old enough to start cutting back. Actual incidents are less
than the newbie group, but the dives are more severe and the likelyhood of
denial very high.

As a result treatment is often delayed or even non existent and the chances
of permanent damage considerably higher. They may get treatment
eventually, but by then in can be too late and in some extreme cases we
are talking major damage to motor skills. Certainly the end to any diving.

So what group of divers has the highest chance of long-term damage?
Yep, experienced deco divers and that's an absolute fact.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by TerryH

....the likelyhood of denial very high.
.....

I think this is a real problem and one that most responsible people try to address.

The danger is extrapolating this out to make the wholly unreasonable assumption that everyone with a missed one minute stop is in denial about their DCI hit.

On one of the other long threads about this the end post was from a newbie diver who was wondering if it is safe to book up on a boat as an independent buddy pair. Is that the message to send out to people?

I believe that the vast majority of us think that common sense application of our knowledge of DCI is the way forward. Yet absolutism rules on all the threads. "Even the remotest risk" is cited - yes well that is everyone that has dived then isn't it?

A minute's missed stop, a "fast" ascent (what's that then 16m/min?) a slight twinge, a particularly loud fart. What criteria are needed before the "denial" trump card is used to ensure that the unfortunate diver cannot win?

I don't want to see people getting hit nor do I want people to deny their symptoms. But please, everyone, missing a stop is not a "symptom" - go read a bloody dictionary FFS.

Chris

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by chrisch

I think this is a real problem and one that most responsible people try to address.

The danger is extrapolating this out to make the wholly unreasonable assumption that everyone with a missed one minute stop is in denial about their DCI hit.

On one of the other long threads about this the end post was from a newbie diver who was wondering if it is safe to book up on a boat as an independent buddy pair. Is that the message to send out to people?

I believe that the vast majority of us think that common sense application of our knowledge of DCI is the way forward. Yet absolutism rules on all the threads. "Even the remotest risk" is cited - yes well that is everyone that has dived then isn't it?

A minute's missed stop, a "fast" ascent (what's that then 16m/min?) a slight twinge, a particularly loud fart. What criteria are needed before the "denial" trump card is used to ensure that the unfortunate diver cannot win?

I don't want to see people getting hit nor do I want people to deny their symptoms. But please, everyone, missing a stop is not a "symptom" - go read a bloody dictionary FFS.

Chris

I was on a boat the other weekend and we were doing some drills ready
for the new season. We put two divers in and did some recoveries etc.

Beforehand we called the CG, said our name, location and how many divers
we were putting in. Thirty minutes later, we called again to say that we
were done and were heading back to Cowes.

They didnt send out the lifeboat, helo or divert shipping. In fact nothing
happend other than someone in a warm office making a note. Yet if it had
gone pairshaped they would have been able to act KNOWING where we
were etc.

A call to the CG doesnt have to call out the cavalry. You can call and
say that a diver has missed stops, is on O2 and as yet there are no
symptoms. Helo is NOT required and we will be heading back. Diver is
being monitored and will update in 15 minutes.

This is the most basic of planning and those of us who do this ALL The
time really dont know what all the fuss is about. It's easy, quick and for all
the garbage spoken on here, is without a doubt the correct action to take,
EVEN if its the weakest of borderline suspected hits.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by TerryH

....
A call to the CG doesnt have to call out the cavalry. You can call and
say that a diver has missed stops, is on O2 and as yet there are no
symptoms. Helo is NOT required and we will be heading back. Diver is
being monitored and will update in 15 minutes.
....

Of course. You can call them up for a radio check and not get the lifeboat either The problem is that there have been plenty of posts on here suggesting that O2+HMCG=RAF

I am pleased to see your experience suggests that is wrong.


Chris