I find it most odd.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Look people i am happy to discuss this but not if rubbish like this is posted.


The above post tells me that the diver apparently needs advice when theres another diver unconscious on the floor of the boat??

So your saying you leave the diver unconscious on the floor, walk to the skipper and has a nice cosy chat with the coastguard.

No i don't think so. Someone like me would pile in immediately stabilize and asses the patient and ask someone else (the stand around an watch type) to call for the chopper. Id then go straight for CPR 02 admin and anything else i can do to help the diver.

I don't need any one's advice at that point and i am ordering the CG to send a chopper not seeing if they think its necessary.

One tec group in my acquaintance dives with a medi kit including adrenalin for direct injection into the heart, a defib pac a vomit vac and a tracheotomy kit.

None of them are medically trained but all have studded how to use them and when.

If i come up totaly screwed I hope I am on their boat rather than with a bunch of people who will just stand around and watch me die waiting for "qualified" people to get there.



ATB

Mark

You aren't reading the question, just answering your own again. I said when YOU are unconscious, Mark, as you are the only person on any of the threads who has stating categorically that no-one should call anyone on your behalf as you are capable of just "knowing" whether you are bent or not.

I questioned at what point we should ignore your opinion and call for help, or start helping you.

I also have no idea why you think there is a choice of acting or calling for help. in my mind they are both in the same camp. If you suspect a problem, you act to deal with it, and one of the sub-action is calling those who a) are expert in the field and who b) may be required to assist. That means coastguard and hyperbaric assistance if you are at sea and have suspected DCI. It means police, ambulance and possibly fire in the case of a road accident and other combinations in other situations. None of the above prevents getting in and helping actively.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by MattS

Is a qualified Hyperbaric Doctor the only person that is able to assess that a person is not bent?

.

No. In some cases it would very obvious, in some cases less so, in some cases the person will not yet be presenting with symptoms. A poll cannot, as you allude to, cover all the various shades of grey, black and off-white. I fetl, however, that Mark was using the very minor end of the scale to demean the option of calling for information or assistance in all cases.

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by purple vonny

I agree that this has been an interesting thread. It has made me think, sometimes agree, sometimes think "hells bloody bells" and sometimes totally disagree.

But sentences like this one above make me scratch my head in bewilderment.
How can someone who is not meidically trained order, obtain and use intra cardiac Adrenaline or know how to perform a safe tracheostomy? Ye gods above, I've been a nurse for 32 years and worked in A&E and intensive care and I am not capable of using intra cardiac adrenaline even though I know how to do it from reading about it. It is beyond the scope of my medical expertise and far beyond the scope of an amateur "medic" who has trained themselves practising on an orange or whatever these people use.

A totally agree with your repeated assumption that missing the odd minute of stops after an otherwise uneventful dive is not an emergency.

Our skipper today explained the emergency procedure to me today when we were discussing nuero checks on a potentially bent diver. HE calls the coastguard, HE speaks to the diving doc directly via radio or phone and HE takes expert advice.

The more I dive and read about stuff like this, the more I think about it and the more I realise I have still to learn. I think in area where one considers oneself an "expert", one realises that there is lots still to learn and we should be much more open minded rather than thinking that we know best.

In summary, I don't disagree with all your points or points of view Mark, but I am wary of those who steadfastly believe that they are right all the time.

There is an error in your judgment. I don't believe I am right all the time.

I believe i can arm my self with the knowledge to make and educated guess.

As an example i studied VPM deco for a while with a view to fully understanding it and making my self able to manipulate a situation to the endth degree should the need arise.

I couldn't do it. I tried reeeeeeely hard and failed.

I went back to GF deco which i felt i could get a fix on.

I looked at DCI and the analysis of hits and i tried reeeeely hard to get my head around it.

I am happy that I have succeeded.

If there was an exam for triage of DCI victims and I had to sit it tomorrow id happily bet the house on me passing.

I reely dont care if any one gives me credit for that. I did it for me not for you.


ATB

Mark