How deep?

[Diving Dude]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Bryan,

I have no personal issue with you ... I am sure you know that already.

My pursuit of the subject is to discuss the issue and share info so that others who may read this debate get the alternative view so they can decide with which viewpoint they agree.

DIR divers get mocked and ridiculed for caring about their in water control re trim and buoyancy. To me it's a much more productive thing to be competitive about, since it gives a diver the relevant control to enjoy the environment in which they are diving without having to give brain cycles to the act of diving....but perhaps chasing depth is easier to brag about?

As to the highlighted piece above, which is the real reason I chose to continue the debate .... what you have written flies in the face of all the wisdom I have acquired. How can the physical action of increased ppN2 change? I am firmly of the opinion that higher order mental processes get inpaired and it does not matter how much you dive .... the effect on the higher order processes remains the same...... it's why we are all advised to "Plan the Dive" when we do have our faculties .... and "dive the plan" when we don't.

Two weeks ago I did a dive where, through working hard, I got narced. Last weekend I dived to twice those depths and was much less narked .... because I was dived up? no I don't think so .... I think it was the helium

Mal

This is bollocks.



Well not the whole lot just the bit about you working hard, yeah right!

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Diving Dude

This is bollocks.



Well not the whole lot just the bit about you working hard, yeah right!

I have had a debrief and I can confirm it won't happen again.

[pauldiving]

Originally Posted by rossc

I'll and another high from my week away ... kneeling on the sea bed at 48m looking up at the bow of the Rosalie Moller was awesome ..... having Typhoons moring rope snap whilst me and deepestandy were completing our stops ...wasn't so hot ....

Oh and the sweet smell of turd in cabin 10 seemed to have gone ... although i only stuck my head round the door for a bit of YD investigation......

was this last november?
i was on infinity boat and on the other shot line! we heard the massive bang!

we we at the bow as well before that....

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Bryan,

I have no personal issue with you ... I am sure you know that already.

Of course. I have the ability to be a complete twat same as anyone else. If I'm told I am being one then I usually consider the reasons behind the statement. You have earned enough ............ erm ...... kudos(?) to say what you want and for me to know there is a good reason behind it (even if I sometimes don't agree with it).

My pursuit of the subject is to discuss the issue and share info so that others who may read this debate get the alternative view so they can decide with which viewpoint they agree.

And quite rightly so and essential to debate differing opinions.

DIR divers get mocked and ridiculed for caring about their in water control re trim and buoyancy. To me it's a much more productive thing to be competitive about, since it gives a diver the relevant control to enjoy the environment in which they are diving without having to give brain cycles to the act of diving....

No, I don't think they get mocked about caring for their trim and buoyancy and certainly not by me. I have always sought to have perfect trim and buoyancy.

but perhaps chasing depth is easier to brag about?

Or how many dives or how rough or dark or silty or scary or pointy or how sick I was or that effing great conger or ............ The depth thing gets thrown up, IMO, because all levels of diving are governed by depth limits. How many times have you read "I'm not allowed to go below xx mtrs"? Of course this could just be because it is easier to type than "at my level it is recommended I do not exceed xx mtrs"?

As to the highlighted piece above, which is the real reason I chose to continue the debate .... what you have written flies in the face of all the wisdom I have acquired. How can the physical action of increased ppN2 change? I am firmly of the opinion that higher order mental processes get impaired and it does not matter how much you dive .... the effect on the higher order processes remains the same...... it's why we are all advised to "Plan the Dive" when we do have our faculties .... and "dive the plan" when we don't.

Sorry to drag you out of retirement. I have no scientific evidence to support my long held opinion/belief that narcosis is like being drunk and, like being drunk, the more you indulge the better your resistance can be and the better you can cope whilst drunk? Perhaps my earlier wording is not precise enough or correct.

Two weeks ago I did a dive where, through working hard, I got narced. Last weekend I dived to twice those depths and was much less narked .... because I was dived up? no I don't think so .... I think it was the helium

Mal

Seriously, you don't think that air diving to certain depths either builds up your resistance or enables you to learn to function better? Perhaps I just learned to feel more comfortable? I just found the analogy to drinking alcohol to be very true?

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Finless

Seriously, you don't think that air diving to certain depths either builds up your resistance or enables you to learn to function better? Perhaps I just learned to feel more comfortable? I just found the analogy to drinking alcohol to be very true?

I will have to dig up references to this but I understand that when the original tests were done the divers were asked to attach nuts to bolts at depth. They timed the activity and found that with repetition they could do it more quickly. It was therefore concluded that one could build a resistance to narcosis.

Further studies concluded that indeed the lower order mental load for a repetitive physical action could indeed speed up, but the higher order mental requirements of decision making remain unchanged.

HTH
Mal

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

I will have to dig up references to this but I understand that when the original tests were done the divers were asked to attach nuts to bolts at depth. They timed the activity and found that with repetition they could do it more quickly. It was therefore concluded that one could build a resistance to narcosis.

Further studies concluded that indeed the lower order mental load for a repetitive physical action could indeed speed up, but the higher order mental requirements of decision making remain unchanged.

HTH
Mal

Oh well, that's OK then for diving to 60 mtrs on a single cylinder then as there are only 3 options to choose from if your breathing stuff fails.

Talking of lowering brain function, I'm off for another beer.

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by finless

I have no scientific evidence to support my long held opinion/belief that narcosis is like being drunk and, like being drunk, the more you indulge the better your resistance can be and the better you can cope whilst drunk? Perhaps my earlier wording is not precise enough or correct.

Seriously, you don't think that air diving to certain depths either builds up your resistance or enables you to learn to function better? Perhaps I just learned to feel more comfortable? I just found the analogy to drinking alcohol to be very true?

I would agree with that, it is a fact that an increase of the ppn2 causes impairment, but it affects people in different ways and and to differing degrees. Some can still function while impaired albeit sub-optimally, while others are totally disabled.

I've done several dives on trimix now and will continue to do so were practical and deeper than 45m, but hand on heart I can't say I've had that 'moment of clarity' that many speak of on mix.

That is my choice and what works for me, works for me, other thoughts on the subject are freely available.

Safe diving,
Steve

[Spacehopper]

Originally Posted by Kirstie

Neither is Buoyant Babe's, cos I've seen it through her bikini in Tenerife.

Point of order madame chairperson, that's a camel toe, not a foof.

Gareth

[sccs]

Originally Posted by Finless

Sorry to drag you out of retirement. I have no scientific evidence to support my long held opinion/belief that narcosis is like being drunk and, like being drunk, the more you indulge the better your resistance can be and the better you can cope whilst drunk? Perhaps my earlier wording is not precise enough or correct.

along the same line of thought isn't the biggest problem with being narked at whatever depth the fact that most dont know it, surley those divers who know when there narked although still experiencing the effects are able to deal with it better.

its along the same line as to why does someone drive really slowly when they are drunk, its cause they know it and dont wanna get caught, where as others think there "fine" to drive and drive faster but they may be no less affected than the other,

ie should you have to calculate some thing on the fly during the dive, if your narked and you know it you will double check everything, whereas if you dont know it you will assume your first result is the correct one, because you have no reason to think otherwise,

would be interesting to know if anyone has "increased" there tolerance of narcosis, ie some one who maybe used to get narked @ x depth but now it dont kick in till y depth.

Originally Posted by Spacehopper

Point of order madame chairperson, that's a camel toe, not a foof.

Gareth

don't think its best to call BB a camel thou..

all this talk about foof just makes me think about diving!!.

ill get my coat

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by sccs

along the same line of thought isn't the biggest problem with being narked at whatever depth the fact that most dont know it, surley those divers who know when there narked although still experiencing the effects are able to deal with it better.

its along the same line as to why does someone drive really slowly when they are drunk, its cause they know it and dont wanna get caught, where as others think there "fine" to drive and drive faster but they may be no less affected than the other,

ie should you have to calculate some thing on the fly during the dive, if your narked and you know it you will double check everything, whereas if you dont know it you will assume your first result is the correct one, because you have no reason to think otherwise,

would be interesting to know if anyone has "increased" there tolerance of narcosis, ie some one who maybe used to get narked @ x depth but now it dont kick in till y depth.


don't think its best to call BB a camel thou..

all this talk about foof just makes me think about diving!!.

ill get my coat

Have you ever done this routine?

Oooo I am a bit deep so I am probably a bit narced...

Best be on top of my game then.....

So check depth .... yep that's good ..... oh what was it? ....best check again... yep that's good ..... oh better check gas .... yep that's good..... oh what was it? .... best check again..... yep that's good ..... oh better check depth.... yep that's good ..... oh what was it? ....best check again... yep that's good ..... oh better check gas .... yep that's good..... oh what was it? etc etc etc

oh time to thumb the dive

that was a great dive but I can't remember much of it .....

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