Will I have a problem?

[Darren A]

I have a 3l pony and 7lt cylinder which both have 120 odd bar of 80% in. The cylinders are both in test, but the O2 test period of both has expired. Can I get them both topped off with air, or will the shop refuse to do it as they contain a high O2 mix but are out of O2 test?

Hope that makes sense!!

TIA

Darren

[beanie]

they should do (fill them) as the O2 is in there already and thats the dodgy bit (getting in in apparently)

depends on your dive shop
whether they actually look at O2 date
and whether they feel like taking the piss or not

[darthmoll]

this is a good question, because, god forbid you had a problem, and the dive was investigated by the HSE, i am not sure where the shop would stand.

If they know they are effectivly supplying you with EAN, i think they have to test it and get you to sign for it in a book, at least thats what we have to do when we want EAN. Then the thorny question of is the cylinder in or out of test, if it is out of O2 service.

I think they may find that they would be in trouble, most of us know what the HSE are like. The fact that someone has been hurt, means that someone/something is to blame.

I do have some trouble with people that think that shops are ripping them off, when they are following agreed standards, not all shops even agree with some of the standards, but if they get caught breaking rules it is them that have to carry the can, not the diver.

[beanie]

I don't beleive that the HSE has anything on O2 cleaning do they?

[And]

Hi

No it shouldn't be a problem as long as the cylinders are in test. In fact, if you peel off the o2 stickers as they are now useless the question won't even come up.

The trouble is whether you tell them that you've got 80% in them or not, as if the cylinders are filled at the same time as others and the other cylinders are at a lower pressure then someone elses cylinders may get some of your 80% depending on the station setup and as they are filling them with air (spit!) then they won't analyse and that could simply kill them !!

I would tell the fill station what you are doing and they can then make their own decision and you are protecting everyone. Usually they will top up for you. As they didn't provide the nitrox then they cannot be touched by the HSE. You haven't signed for a fill or anything see.

Andy

[Mary]

Originally Posted by darthmoll

If they know they are effectivly supplying you with EAN, i think they have to test it and get you to sign for it in a book, at least thats what we have to do when we want EAN.

How is this different from having a nitrox fill then just getting it topped up with air after that dive. You are still effectively diving nitrox at a weaker mix than the initial fill, but you don't have to sign the book as for a "proper" nitrox fill. Or do you not do this?

[chrisch]

Everyone is trying to cover their backs. Stricly after getting a top-up you should analyse and sign. This indemnifies the shop if you exceed the MOD.

As everyone has pointed out no O2 so no reason not to add air since the "problem" gas is already in there.

Darthmoll is right though. It seems that in this day and age there is no such thing as an accident. Whatever it is its someone's fault and they (or their ins co) must cough up. To wit they counterclaim as it is - of course - your fault. I blame the yanks this is their stupid system.

It wouldn't surprise me if many a LDS says no. After all they get to take 20 notes off you for sloshing some Fairy Liquid over the tank for ten minutes...

Phhhaaaaaaaaa...

Next thing you'll want me to wear a crash helmet on me pushbike. (What! some twat MP has already..... Argh.. I'm off. Oh. I've gone already)

Chris

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by beanie

I don't beleive that the HSE has anything on O2 cleaning do they?

I think you would find that the HSE would expect any dive shop to follow agreed practice, and in the event of an accident, failure to do so would leave them open to prosecution. Put it this way, would you leave yourself liable to investigation from the HSE, I wouldn't. Getting investigated by the HSE is a bit like getting stopped by the traffic cops, they will always find something.

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by And

Hi

No it shouldn't be a problem as long as the cylinders are in test. In fact, if you peel off the o2 stickers as they are now useless the question won't even come up.

The trouble is whether you tell them that you've got 80% in them or not, as if the cylinders are filled at the same time as others and the other cylinders are at a lower pressure then someone elses cylinders may get some of your 80% depending on the station setup and as they are filling them with air (spit!) then they won't analyse and that could simply kill them !!

I would tell the fill station what you are doing and they can then make their own decision and you are protecting everyone. Usually they will top up for you. As they didn't provide the nitrox then they cannot be touched by the HSE. You haven't signed for a fill or anything see.

Andy

I am not sure if you are correct, as by filling your cylinder with air, you have an EAN fill. It is one of these things that will no doubt, be tested in court one day.

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by Mary

How is this different from having a nitrox fill then just getting it topped up with air after that dive. You are still effectively diving nitrox at a weaker mix than the initial fill, but you don't have to sign the book as for a "proper" nitrox fill. Or do you not do this?

I am not sure about that, but i think this may be something that needs to be cleared up, as it is still an EAN fill, if you were to have an accident and it became clear that you were given a fill without signing for it, i am sure the person filling the cylinder would find themselves with some explaining to do.

Not being a betting person i am not willing to put money on this, but it may be that nobody has had an accident using a topped up cylinder. If that is the case this situation will not have been tested. A quick call to the HSE would confirm this, or prove it to be nonsense.