Configration of equipment.

[simon]

Im toying with the idea of changing my rig, Ive been reading Kevin Gurrs book from the bottom up.
The rig goes like this - main reg on bungie around neck supplied from the left valve (looking from the back of tanks to front) also on this post your SPG and wing inflation. The reason for this - if you are doing overhead and penetrations ect this is the post that would roll to the off position, so breathing off it you will know if it has or has not, if you were using the dir method and it rolled off and you had to donate your main reg to a OOA diver your back up reg would give no air. The secondry reg (with 2 meter hose)and donating reg would be stowed looped up between two bits of bungie on your back plate with the reg connected to a octo holder on your right chest d ring, this is the one you would donate in a emergency to a OOA diver.

Answers on a postcard please

Safe Diving

Simon

(Edited by simon at 3:32 pm on Jan. 25, 2003)

[Dominic]

Well, my first thoughts are:
Can you quickly and easily re-stow the long hose by yourself with this setup?
Do you do penetration dives where it's possible to roll off the reg? If not, it's not worth configuring for it.

[Scuba1]

If your buddy is OOA you don`t need to restow that reg............. until you are on the boat.

Regards
Michael

(Edited by Scuba1 at 9:04 pm on Jan. 25, 2003)

[Lawrence Debono]

My set up is very similar - main on the left post with surgical tubing together with an SPG and wing inflator. On the right I've got the suit inflator, another SPG (some might disagree) and the donating reg / “non” free flow reg with 2 m hose.

There are elastic "socks" where one can stow away the long hose. I used to use one but what I found handier is a Velcro loop on the right shoulder of my harness. I can easily keep the long hose and even repack it that way. In my case I use a single bladder OMS with the IQ pack so the right Velcro ""holder"" (don't know its proper name), comes in handy for that. It's right there and I don't even use a reg retainer.

The only thing that makes me scratch my head is bending the hose. That part I don't like but it is less likely to get it tangled with some thing else, this way. I had some hard time when I’m caring a canister light or while I have a reel with a deployed bag, etc. Every time I experimented with passing the hose over my head there was always some thing: At times even the snorkel got in the way.

Lawrence

[Dominic]

</span>

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Scuba1 on 8:58 pm on Jan. 25, 2003
If your buddy is OOA you don`t need to restow that reg............. until you are on the boat.

<span =''>
True. IF he's OOA.

But if he just drops his main DV and can't find it quickly enough... or if his tank gets rolled closed and he thinks he's OOA... or if you're diving with stages and it's only his backgas that's gone...

There ARE situations where your buddy will take your DV but hand it back to you before you surface. If you suddenly find yourself with 2m of hose and no way to restuff it, you've got a problem.

More likely, tho, is that the hose simply slips out of it's holder and you have to get it back in. It can happen, it has to be dealt with.

I wouldn't dive with a long hose I couldn't re-deploy by myself in a mater of seconds.

[Mark]

I'd say that the Gurr method should only be used by divers who:

A) Dive solo
&amp; or
B) Are unsure how their equipment works and are unable to spot and correct a simple problem underwater.

That may sound a bit harsh but if he assumes you can't spot a left post roll-off how can you then be expected to spot that you forgot to turn on your right post where you're bungeed and stowed long hose is connected? Do you see what I'm getting at?

Dive safe

Mark.

(Edited by Mark at 1:10 am on Jan. 27, 2003)


(Edited by Mark at 1:34 am on Jan. 27, 2003)

[simon]

(but if he assumes you can't spot a left post roll-off how can you then be expected to spot that you forgot to turn on your right post ) ?

HOW DO YOU SPOT A LEFT POST ROLL OFF ?? When you are breathing off the right and donaiting the right,every, say two min's thro the dive check the reg ? don't think so.

(Can you quickly and easily re-stow the long hose by yourself with this setup? ) If you need to get the hose out you probably are going home, even if it was not needed all you do is wrap it round you neck till you get out, like most of you are doing now.

(Do you do penetration dives where it's possible to roll off the reg? If not, it's not worth configuring for it. )

Have you tried it ??, Prob NO , why not try diffrent configrations, there is only one best configriation, that is the one thats right for you.

Why dont some of you open your eyes and look at your kit and ask yourself does it work for you easily, or have you copied someone and got used to it.???

Regards Simon

[andy2tanx]

</span>

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Quote: from simon on 9:59 am on Jan. 27, 2003[brHave you tried it ??, Prob NO , why not try diffrent configrations, there is only one best configriation, that is the one thats right for you.

Why dont some of you open your eyes and look at your kit and ask yourself does it work for you easily, or have you copied someone and got used to it.???

Regards Simon

<span =''>
Wise words indeed. &nbsp;In fact, that is one of the reasons I intend to go back to the inverted business. &nbsp;It works for me better than the 'correct' way. &nbsp;

Although it could be said that the only reason I am so keen on it is because I copied someone (the fire brigade) and got used to it at work. &nbsp;hmmm.

[Dominic]

&quot;HOW DO YOU SPOT A LEFT POST ROLL OFF ?? When you are breathing off the right and donaiting the right,every, say two min's thro the dive check the reg ? don't think so. &quot;

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Your valve will only roll off if it comes into contact with something. If you bash your valves, check the DV. If it works, it hasn't rolled off. You only check for a roll-off when one may have occurred. Rarely in penetration dives, never in open water.

&quot;If you need to get the hose out you probably are going home&quot;

No you're not. See above.

&quot;even if it was not needed all you do is wrap it round you neck till you get out, like most of you are doing now.&quot;

If you're resigned to doing it that way anyway, what exactly are the pros of doing it the other way? What benefits do you get out of having a stuffed hose that make you want to use this method over another?
The only one you've mentioned so far was 'if you were using the dir method and it rolled off and you had to donate your main reg to a OOA diver your back up reg would give no air'
So what?
In an OOA situation, your buddy is the one who needs a DV that is guaranteed to work, not you. He's panicked, stressed, and desperate for air. You're not. If your backup valve is closed, reach behind you and open it.
If your buddy's DV is off, which in the Gurr config it could be for all you know, then he'll drop the long hose DV and take the one in your mouth. And then you have no DV for yourself, because the long hose will be floating in the water somewhere.

&quot;Have you tried it ??, Prob NO &quot;

No, I haven't. I don't often do penetration dives, and when I do, I refrain from smacking my valves on the roof. I advise everybody else to do the same.
Besides, I don't see valve roll-off as something worth configuring for. The amount of turning it takes to close a valve, I'd have to bounce off a ceiling about two dozen times before it was even slightly possible.

&quot;Why dont some of you open your eyes and look at your kit and ask yourself does it work for you easily, or have you copied someone and got used to it.???&quot;

Pot, meet kettle. You're the one copying the Gurr configuration. Flaws have been raised with the configuration, which you have ignored. You've been asked some perfectly reasonable questions, and you've responded by becoming hostile.

With that attitude, you should definitely consider becoming a DIR fanatic. You'd fit in well.


(Edited by Dominic at 11:28 am on Jan. 27, 2003)

[Mark]

</span>

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Quote: from simon on 9:59 am on Jan. 27, 2003

HOW DO YOU SPOT A LEFT POST ROLL OFF ?? When you are breathing off the right and donaiting the right,every, say two min's thro the dive check the reg ? don't think so.

<span =''>

Would you question your unmoving SPG needle? Would you wonder why after putting gas in your suit, the SPG now says zero gas yet you are still breathing? It's not hard to figure out what the problem is and is simple to correct.

Worst case would be donate long hose, switch to backup, breath a couple of fading breaths then no gas.

Think quick...was there gas in the left tank at the start of the dive?(if not you are an idiot),

Did you check your SPG before entering the water? (if not you are an idiot),

Did you suddenly (since you last checked your SPG) loose all the gas in the left tank without you or buddy noticing? (highly unlikely).

While thinking you would be checking the valve and opening it.

If you can't deal with this kind of situation you should not be diving with a manifolded twin set. If you do come into contact with an overhead you should always check your valves anyway.

In an OOA situation the OOA diver must have a reg that you know is working. He has priority because he needs the gas more than you do. The DIR way ensures that he will always get the gas he needs on the long hose.

You should not compare anything with DIR unless you fully understand what DIR is in the first place. Read JJ's book 'Doing it right - The fundamentals of better diving' and you may learn something usefull.

Dive safe,

Mark.



(Edited by Mark at 11:34 am on Jan. 27, 2003)


(Edited by Mark at 11:40 am on Jan. 27, 2003)


(Edited by Mark at 11:42 am on Jan. 27, 2003)