EEEK!! Out of air

[MATTBIN]

RJ I wont fuel the debate about the 'cleverness' or otherwise of your dive but please bear in mind that there are newbies here who could be influenced by your comments and whilst you may well have been perfectly in control of the situation the general concensus of opinion from training agencies etc is to start to return to the surface with sufficient air to ascend slowly and have 50bar remaining at the surface. Indee I understand some places have a three warnings and a ban policy on liveaboards, you most definitely would have a black mark for 0bar  
I agree I doubt if there is a single diver who hasnt had an incident and learnt from it, let me ask you would you do that in our cold and murky waters - no of course not, but it could be mis-construed that you would.

Pleas guys lets not go down the Handbagnet route.

Matt

The guide wasn't really bothered funnily enough. In fact after the first day he took the rest of the week off and just let us get on with it after a quick run down on the days dive. He said none of us needed nannying!
 We were in a group of 12 and basically ran the diving including taking care of the inexperienced divers in turns.

[Dominic]

When I was at the Red Sea, we were given dire warnings about letting our cylinders get too low - if they went below 30 bar, we were told, we'd have to pay for them to be retested.
I forget the reason..

[John Gulliver]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Dominic @ April 15 2003,12:36)]When I was at the Red Sea, we were given dire warnings about letting our cylinders get too low - if they went below 30 bar, we were told, we'd have to pay for them to be retested.
I forget the reason..

Were the cylinders steel? I've been told the same when diving with steel tanks in the Red Sea.

[Digger]

If your tank is no longer pressurised, in theory water could back up through the system into the tank. Highly unlikely, but possible. What we had was making people pay to service the regs, as it is much more likely with no pressure in the hoses that water will get in there, and therefore do what saltwater does to metal parts.

Always a good deterrent. Same went for washing regs without dustcaps, a favourite of mine. I would have to stand right next to the tanks every day, everyone had been told at least 5 or 6 times, and would catch regs inches from the water with the little black cap dangling free. Just goes to show, if people are determined not to listen...

[Mark Chase]

<font color='#000F22'>Boys Boys

the abusive languige bit just gets abusive replies and the the context of the criticisum is lost in the red haze.

As a diver who thinks going down on the Thistlegorm on a K clamped single 12 is unacceptable, I am definatly not condoning the dive planning this chap used, but have been are many a diver stepping back on the boat with 20 bar on that dive, IMHO

Its deceptivly deep and when the current is running , it's physicly demanding so catches a lot of people out. Actulay planning to be on the shot with 20 bar is at best overconfident but this chap obviously had confidence in spades. But you can have 40m viz on the TG &nbsp;and no current so in those conditions divers are want to do things they wouldent dream of in the UK.

Let the storys be printed and the criticisum be reasoned and the newbys will read the thread and lurn. &nbsp;

Just a thaught

Mark Chase

[Mdemon]

I like YD because you can post your experiences and (generally) they are learned from and not scorched off the face of the forum.

Mattbin/Mark, you are bang on. &nbsp;Digger, I know where you are coming from mate, and what you said about the planning makes a good point, but I believe flaming is for Handbag net, not here.

RubberJ, I am interested in hearing reports when things go wrong, even if they do mention practices not considered &quot;the norm&quot;! &nbsp;

Right, off my soapbox.

I had an OOA situation on Sunday - sort of. &nbsp;And I mention it because my buddy and I have specifically drilled each other to take the reg direct from the buddy's mouth. &nbsp;I had given him one of my regs to breathe from since he was on a 15 and getting low. (I was on twin indies). &nbsp;At the 6m stop, I did but he didn't! &nbsp;Because I didn't have long hoses, the position was awkward and communication almost impossible - and we were both using slates. &nbsp;Having just gone into Ascent time on my Vyper, I stayed at the correct depth. &nbsp;This left my buddy looking for a reg. &nbsp;Despite having a primary, and octo and Auto Air, he couldn't locate any of them and went for the surface.

Lessons learned:
I made a mistake in not monitoring my buddy's air close enough (there, I said it!)
My bud is going to concentrate more on his buoyancy and less on his DSMB!
I NEED LONG HOSES!!! &nbsp;They have been on my shopping list for some time now, but this actual situation has accelerated them to the front of the queue.
I need a necklace - and so does my bud. &nbsp;Our drills have been that the donor in the OOA situation loses his primary to his bud, and goes immediately to his Auto Air. &nbsp;This works very well for me, but then I haven't been on the receiving end so far. &nbsp;I think having the regs under your chin must be the way forward for us.

The unfortunate thing is that this has knocked my buddy's confidence and has made him less keen and more wary of diving. &nbsp;Better kit selection on my part would have prevented this.

[MATTBIN]

In my opinion anybody who dives in the UK just has to have his/her own redundant air supply suitable for the depths they dive - full stop. You are NOT your buddies spare life support system, with our poor viz this is an absolute must have piece of kit. So dont beat yourself up about your kits short comings in that your buddy went topside, had he had a pony he wouldnt have bothered so much. Agreed even that isnt fool proof and doesnt mean you treat the dive as a solo but your buddy is your last safe resort, not the first.

Tell him to get a pony or twins instead of trying to blame you for not having long hoses etc. This must be the most important sport where we have to let the buck stop at the appropraite point instead of blaming others.

Unless you are training someone it is their responsibility to monitor their air and go topside at the correct time in the correct manner.

The buddy system is supposed to be for emergencies not a spare air tank system.

Off my soapbox now!

Matt

[Digger]

<font color='#000080'>In my defence, I try not to flame. I try and be constructive, but when faced with someone who will not see the resoning behind my argument, or even admit that there may have been an error in judgement, all I can do is to try and reiterate what I've said.

Some people won't listen, and they're not people I will dive with. I take any comments from you guys very seriously, and try and understand your point of view. I try to accept that sometimes someone else knows better. I don't think RJ has tried to do any of this. Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am, my apologies.

My intention was to try and help. Maybe it worked, I get the feeling it hasn't. At least the newbies reading this won't be saying &quot;I can plan my dive this way 'cos Mr. Digger said so.&quot;

I think we should share this sort of thing as much as possible, and sharing stories like this is a learning opportunity. If we don't learn, we're just here for a dick-measuring contest. We've all had dives like these, and they're an easy way of learning. Just we need to try and make sure we do.

Anyway, I'm tired of this thread. Really tired of it. Let's talk about Boobies...

[MATTBIN]

Self build or ready made?

Matt