Bent!

[big_si]

Originally Posted by Garf

The stinger's deco model is all about getting you into the shallows quickly and keeping you there for ages. It punishes you with more of the same if you try to introduce deeper stops. I hated it as a deco computer, so it quickly got turned into gauge mode, and then quickly ebayed.

Yeah, mine's been on gauge mode for a while now. Backed up with a Uwatec dive timer. Stinger is fine for any holiday bimbling that I'm doing to keep track of no stop time...

Might just get myself another dive timer to use for the planned dives though.

[Dave Crampton]

Originally Posted by Garf

The stinger's deco model is all about getting you into the shallows quickly and keeping you there for ages. It punishes you with more of the same if you try to introduce deeper stops. I hated it as a deco computer, so it quickly got turned into gauge mode, and then quickly ebayed.

I used to get back on the boats and all put pass out from tiredness. As soon as I started running vplanner on slates it made an incredible difference to how good I felt on the surface.

You might say it Punishes you, but can doing more deco than nessessary be a punishment? or more prefered. I personally feel that if you understand the deep stops and how they are ment to work, then any extra stops at 6m (whilst diving this model) can only be good. Getting out of the water faster may be prefered but by doing this aren't we sailing closer to the wind? So a few more mins deco? This should make you feel better post dive and be safer shouldn't it? Sorry to get off track.

Dave C

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Dave Crampton

You might say it Punishes you, but can doing more deco than nessessary be a punishment? or more prefered. I personally feel that if you understand the deep stops and how they are ment to work, then any extra stops at 6m (whilst diving this model) can only be good. Getting out of the water faster may be prefered but by doing this aren't we sailing closer to the wind? So a few more mins deco? This should make you feel better post dive and be safer shouldn't it? Sorry to get off track.

Dave C

YD is all abotu going off track, so let's not start apologising for that or we're all in trouble . I agree that if you understand deep stops and include them, then do the stinger's deco, then you have the best of both world. However, when I was using the stinger for deco, critically I DIDN'T understand the benefits and methods of deep stops, so was just doing what the stinger said - rush up to the shallows at "jesus christ I'm going to reach escape velocity" metres per minute and then stay there until the thing told me I could leave the water. However, I use "punish" becuase if you DO include deep stops, it does not credit you for them and adds it all onto the shallow stop times anyway. I appreciate that a little extra deco is a good thing in most people's books, and certainly can't hurt, but 5 minutes of deep stops could rack up a suprising amount of shallow stops, and 20 minutes of unplanned deco gives you all kinds of issues, such as gas management etc.

[Colin Marriott]

Originally Posted by Garf

YD is all about going off track, so let's not start apologizing for that or we're all in trouble . . . . when I was using the stinger for deco, critically I DIDN'T understand the benefits and methods of deep stops, so was just doing what the stinger said - rush up to the shallows at "jesus christ I'm going to reach escape velocity" metres per minute and then stay there until the thing told me I could leave the water.

I think there's a big mis-conception of what dive computers tell us. As I understand it, the computer is not telling me what to do, more it's telling me what I can't do!

So it will tell me
"don't go above 3mtr, and certainly don't think about getting out of the water in the next ten minutes",

rather than
"Quick . . . head to 3mtrs and stay there for 10mins!"

If you see what I mean . . . .

ColinM

[Simon TW]

Originally Posted by DIVE BUDDHA

1 spinal/neuro bend
2 full recompressions after feeling unwell after dives
all within limits and all no deco dives !!
full pfo test at bupa hull !
all clear since for 2 years now !

Don't take the "All Clear" from Hull seriously. I was given the "All Clear" and over a year later the NHS catch up with me and I'm contacted by a Dr. P. Wilmshust from Shrewsbury who phoned me right out of the blue. He said he wanted to test me and I replied that I didn't have a PFO because Hull had done the test and I was "All Clear" he said that he was the expert and he would tell me if I was all clear.

Guess what? 10 mil hole constantley bubbling, even at rest. I have been really lucky because after I was cleared from Hull I did Mod 3 on the box and plenty of deep dives in the last twelve months. I went on believing it to be a undeserved hit and have been very cautious regarding Hydration and dive fitness.

Contact P Wilmshurst and know for sure. He did tell me how much for a private test and it wasn't much. I can't remember the exact cost but I remember thinking "less than a decent reg"

[ccr_ada]

Well looking so far there seems to still be none bent through drinking too much ?
Yet we hear about this lots through training all the time !!!! come on don't be shy I have never since being on ccr felt tired after diving and I'm one of the worlds worst for staying up late drinking usually to excess and then diving the next day and over a weeks trip ITS NOT BIG OR CLEVER I KNOW!! But I do enjoy my drink! And my diving it works for me it may not for you !
The diving is usually deepish and long bottom times if we can even 2 a day deep morning dive then up to 50m in the afternoons !! i do drink a fair bit of water through the day and have a pee valve and use it ALL the time never holding it in!!! {Don't try this yourself it may not work for you !}

We are hearing a few bits about being tired after diving that's called SUB-CLINICAL meaning right on the edge of a bend !!! How many are using tables or computers and are feeling like this? {a poll may be good here} Most of us are nothing like the people who were the guinea pigs for the people who made up the tables/software they were usually young fit males or models/goats yes ''goats'' in labs! And yes there is some conservatism built into the computers and tables some of us use the conservatism button some don't but we are still all guinea pigs AND what is an undeserved bend?

All sorts of things could come into this from being slightly dehydrated ,tired/stress, no food inside you, eating/drinking diet foods/drinks, cold conditions , bad previous dives and/or not tracking a weeks/weekends previous dives properly ! Wrong gases!{try using 2 different analysers ! Not just 1} The list goes on !
so undeserved hits as you put it if you look hard enough you can find the answer, its not always the correct information given or looked for!

There is no such thing I think as an undeserved hit, just people making mistakes, diving beyond their skills, experience and knowledge or not analysing their bad practices properly in order to understand why they got bent.

plz don't take this the wrong way !!

[Garf]

Originally Posted by ccr_ada

Well looking so far there seems to still be none bent through drinking too much ?
Yet we hear about this lots through training all the time !!!! come on don't be shy I have never since being on ccr felt tired after diving and I'm one of the worlds worst for staying up late drinking usually to excess and then diving the next day and over a weeks trip ITS NOT BIG OR CLEVER I KNOW!! But I do enjoy my drink! And my diving it works for me it may not for you !
The diving is usually deepish and long bottom times if we can even 2 a day deep morning dive then up to 50m in the afternoons !! i do drink a fair bit of water through the day and have a pee valve and use it ALL the time never holding it in!!! {Don't try this yourself it may not work for you !}

We are hearing a few bits about being tired after diving that's called SUB-CLINICAL meaning right on the edge of a bend !!! How many are using tables or computers and are feeling like this? {a poll may be good here} Most of us are nothing like the people who were the guinea pigs for the people who made up the tables/software they were usually young fit males or models/goats yes ''goats'' in labs! And yes there is some conservatism built into the computers and tables some of us use the conservatism button some don't but we are still all guinea pigs AND what is an undeserved bend?

All sorts of things could come into this from being slightly dehydrated ,tired/stress, no food inside you, eating/drinking diet foods/drinks, cold conditions , bad previous dives and/or not tracking a weeks/weekends previous dives properly ! Wrong gases!{try using 2 different analysers ! Not just 1} The list goes on !
so undeserved hits as you put it if you look hard enough you can find the answer, its not always the correct information given or looked for!

There is no such thing I think as an undeserved hit, just people making mistakes, diving beyond their skills, experience and knowledge or not analysing their bad practices properly in order to understand why they got bent.

plz don't take this the wrong way !!

you raise an interesting point about how many people feel super tired after a dive and are thus possibly suffering sub clinical bends, but the bugger is how do you tell whether you are just knackered or sub clinically bent. I always feel wasted if I dive on air anyway.

Your point about their being no such thing as an undeserved hit is also interesting. You could argue that there is simply a bend that is no understood rather than undeserved, but when you do everything well within the bounds of what is considered safe, and still take a hit, and there is no "known" medical condition, then the best the medics can do is say "undeserved" until a day arrives when they understand it all. I suspect that day will be long after we are all dead and buried so for the time being "undeserved" is the best we are going to get.

As the doctor who treated me said "You can take every precuation in the book and build conservatism into every aspect of your diving, and sometimes you will still get bent. We just don't know why"

[Twinset & Wing]

I think Whilmshurst's rate is about £120

well worth it in my book.

[A. Berk]

Originally Posted by ccr_ada

There is no such thing I think as an undeserved hit, just people making mistakes, diving beyond their skills, experience and knowledge or not analysing their bad practices properly in order to understand why they got bent.

I agree up to a point - if you dive you 'deserve' a hit - we (homo-erectus) just aren't designed for the large changes in pressure that diving with apparatus brings with it. The hyperbaric medico's will admitt that much is still to be learnt. I have treated a number of 'bends' - some turned out to be spurious (muscular/ligament damage from heavy work etc) and the ones that I'd classify as real hits were, using this new terminology 'undeserved'. Commercial diving exercises the most controlled decompression on the planet and we still get hits.

I've also seen some real dodgy dives pan-out OK. We did 120m+ trimix dives involving heavy work in the 70's on tables that were developed 'fag packet' style... yet not one of us had a problem. I may be one of those lucky folk who don't 'bend' easy, I await my first hit.

The bottom-line... if you really don't want to experience DCI - don't dive!

[Sparky750]

This thread has got me thinking now because i'm always absolutely shagged after a days diving never done deco etc just bimbles down to 36m max and my longest dive was about an hour ave depth 14m two dives that day when i got home all i did was sleep absolutely bolloxed i was hoping when i get around to nitrox this will cure it. true or not?