head-heavy in twin faber 12's

[Janos]

Do you have room to move the wing (but not the backplate) up a notch?

Janos

[weazelz]

Originally Posted by hyweldavies

Slightly obvious but have you got the tank-bands all the way up to the necks? I improved a bit by moving the tanks down / bands up, which slightly mellowed the head-first-ness.

tank bands are as high as they go - right on the 'break' of the neck

I assume you really do mean a tail weight, which sits nearly bellow the tanks, not just a keel weight which sits between the bands?

yes, one of these:

http://www.dirdirect.com/astro/images/tailweight02.jpg

Are you using the wing for buoyancy, or the suit? I'm rather more OK using the suit than the wing. Not to say the suit is better (not getting into that debate), but just as comparison to whether my state, hence suggestions, are likely to be useful for you.

My 55lbs wing is clearly too big - took the advice of the shop and Halcyon's website unfortunately, but should clearly have bought a 40lbs (for 2x12 fabers, and ally 7 stage). I'm told on reasonably good authority, but haven't tried myself, that the doughnut type wings are better for front-tippyness. I'm thinking of getting one once I'm convinced it will help and at any rate, need to change to smaller wing. You might like to consider this, especially if you can borrow one first.

I use the wing - dive rite rec wing - for buoyancy. it is a horseshoe rather than doughnut & ~50lb lift I think

As an aside, went on a stripy fish holiday recently ...

I borrowed a single-tank doughnut wing for the hols, and got it spot on for trim (by my modest standards anyway), so now I do know what I'm aiming at. With my present UK set-up I struggle to use the wing tail-dump, but on hols with good trim it was easy.

likewise here. I have a dive rite venture single-tank wing for single-tank wetsuit stuff & my trim is absolutely spot-on in it with some weight banded to the top of the tank

Still working on it myself, but hopefully the odd thought of some use.

it is, thanks

[weazelz]

Originally Posted by Janos

Do you have room to move the wing (but not the backplate) up a notch?

good idea - the wing has three bolt positions, I have it on the middle one, I'll move it up one

I'm wondering a bit about my backplate too. it's a scubapro one with two bolt positions which I have on the lower one (ie tanks furthest down my back). I find that I do have to have my shouldstraps a bit looser than I could do otherwise, in order to get the tanks down my back enough. even then the isolator is slightly in the back of my head - I can't quite put my head back far enough to look straight ahead when I'm flat (I can get flat whilst finning, just not whilst stationary). I can get to the valves for shutdowns pretty easily, so I could potentially move the twinset down a bit, if only I had a lower pair of holes on the plate (not sure I fancy my chances drilling stainless)

[Sooty Stoo]

Originally Posted by yazzyfooty

I have just got back from the GUE/DIR day at Capers today and this point was raised. We were advised that Faber cylinders do tend to be heavy at the neck end and a way of dealing with it is tail weights (which you are doing) and moving cylinders down the back plate a tad, ensuring you are still able to reach your valves. Hope this helps.

You beat me to it Yazz. That was what I was going to suggest to make myself seem more knowledgeable.

[e14724]

Originally Posted by yazzyfooty

I have just got back from the GUE/DIR day at Capers today and this point was raised. We were advised that Faber cylinders do tend to be heavy at the neck end and a way of dealing with it is tail weights (which you are doing) and moving cylinders down the back plate a tad, ensuring you are still able to reach your valves. Hope this helps.

Not a problem for me anymore It does make a difference though

Only managed one dive though today after all my faffing round!!!

[gobfish1]

HeadGallery1

[Woz]

Originally Posted by weazelz

(not sure I fancy my chances drilling stainless)

Get a nice new sharp drill.
Centrepunch a hole with a hammer and nail.
Drill through the stainless with a 5mm drill using lots of cooling oil and pulling the drill out occasionally to clear the swarf. Do NOT let it get too hot or it will work harden and be a bugger.
As the drill goes through, back off the pressure a bit or it will grab.
Then drill through with a 9 or 10mm drill, going nice and slowly with lots of coolant. If you don't have proper cutting coolant then use lots of engine oil. Messy but effective.
Finally get a bigger drill and use it by hand to take the burrs off the hole. If you don't have a bigger drill use 40 or 60 grit emery.

If you don't fancy it, send it in the post to me and I'll do it for you.

I've got twin Fabers and they trim really nicely but they are 12.5, not 12 or 12.2 and are very heavy- they appear to have the steel in the right spot.

[Sipadan]

have been reading this thread with interest. had a set of faber twin 10s which were the bigget mistake i ever made. there was just no way to trim them. when i say i was head down, i mean i would 'stand' on my head. total nightmare. after 18 months of faffing around, spending lots of money and melting lead, i finally gave up. have a set of faber 12's with TWO 2kg tailweights on them and they are just about right.

[access]

I have had twin Faber 12's on a Zeagle Tech wing since 94 and have no head down problems. Could it be the positoning of the integrated weights in the Zeagle wing that has prevented this, they are quite low and to the front ? It could be worth trying different positions for your existing weights.

[Digger]

Originally Posted by Woz

Get a nice new sharp drill.
Centrepunch a hole with a hammer and nail.
Drill through the stainless with a 5mm drill using lots of cooling oil and pulling the drill out occasionally to clear the swarf. Do NOT let it get too hot or it will work harden and be a bugger.
As the drill goes through, back off the pressure a bit or it will grab.
Then drill through with a 9 or 10mm drill, going nice and slowly with lots of coolant. If you don't have proper cutting coolant then use lots of engine oil. Messy but effective.
Finally get a bigger drill and use it by hand to take the burrs off the hole. If you don't have a bigger drill use 40 or 60 grit emery.

If you don't fancy it, send it in the post to me and I'll do it for you.

I've got twin Fabers and they trim really nicely but they are 12.5, not 12 or 12.2 and are very heavy- they appear to have the steel in the right spot.

Your fabers are a work of art, and I don't know where to get some. If I did I'd have some. Very very nice indeeedy. No tail weight, nothing, just how they should be.

I have a set of fabers which have about 2.5kg as a tail weight.

Do you have any other lead anywhere at all on your set?

Consider using an ally backplate and increasing the size of the tailweight. You are effectively moving the weight further down as you also have less weight above the centre of gravity. The other advantage to an ally plate is you can drill and break it easy to get it how you want it.

Other options: Change twins to longer tanks with heavier bottoms (something like the Heisers or Euro cylinders), ankle weights (urgh), more lead at the bottom - consider bolting through from the other side to attach more lead at the back, but this is not ideal IMO.

I would suggest that one way or another your tanks are too high. You should be able to reach your head right back and it will sit between the first stages comfortably, there should be no restriction of movement normally, which it sounds like there is.

Body positioning will also play a bit part. When stationary move your arms out in front of you and tuck your feet up to your arse a bit (you may need to clench a bit to get this perfect ) and you should rotate feet down, put your arms by your sides and stretch your feet out and you should rotate feet up. This can make a big difference. See your natural position in the water, and get used to having your hands together in front of you. I find having a torch helps me to do this as if you leave your hands dangling you can't see where you're going.

Hope this helps.

Digs.