TDI Adv EANx/Deco VS IANTD Adv Rec Trimix - why always TDI?!

[IanDennis]

Originally Posted by Scubee

Is there an instructor about who can clarify this?

See above

[Scuttler]

My decision was not based on agency at all. I wanted the best training that I could get and Mark Powell came highly recommended.

I knew I wanted access to up to 100% 02 (I believe that the IANTD Adv Nit limits you to 50% which wasn't a big increase from my nitrox ticket) so that I could accelerate deco and I wanted a deco procedures course to show me how.

I also knew that I wasn't bothered about trimix at that stage when I eventually move to trimix it will be for the 50m+ mark.

[Mark Chase]

1.6 for deco is taught by TDI for sure and I believe its taught by IANTD.

TDI also teach NOAA emergency situation max exposure of 30mins at 2.0bar PP02 which i like because it reduces the mental stress on the diver at 1.6 by making them aware of whats possible.



Why TDI?

Ignorance is the quick answer.

A few years ago (7) when i started on the tec training side IANTD had a reputation for crap / nonexistent training manuals and an undeserved association with some hippie karma type diving techniques which sounded all wrong but I now use them all the time.

So I went TDI


In a lot of ways it was a mistake because had i got a IANTD trimix ticket (at that time) it would have qualified me to unlimited depth where as the TDI one is 100m.

Its a small thing but it means i wouldn't be risking invalidating my life insurance every time I go past 100 (which i do).

Then on the CCR side IANTD would have allowed me to officially use Trimix on shallow dives. Which I did anyway on my Air only TDI cert, again risking life insurance.

I think today that IANTD have probably caught up on the manuals and are better organized so Id look very carefully at what each course is offering in terms of scope when it comes to your qualification and just chose the one that suits your diving best.


I shall be doing my first IANTD course next week


ATB

Mark

[gobfish1]

IANTD had a reputation for crap / nonexistent training manuals

mark
they had training manuale in 93 ,,, when i did OC TM ,, only problem was it was all in psi fsw and ats


karma type diving techniques,,, just say after me ,
i will not die, i will not die, i will not die, i will not die ,,,

Mark , one for you, say after me , i will find the line . i will find the line

gobfish

[Roobydoo]

Originally Posted by Scubee

Hmmmmm somewhat different to the information on the Vobster website, which says


is there an instructor about who can clarify this?

The latest IANTD standards refer to the 48m as the max qualification depth. However, as in all courses, local conditions will have an impact on this....

The Adv Rec Tx course is a strange beast, a hybrid of X and Y, not really fitting into any specific progression route. The comments on materials are noted, but one thing I have experienced as an active IANTD instructor, is that it empowers the instructor to elaborate on the materials. I choose my words carefully; not over teach, not just run the course based on the book/slideshow. It promotes active insertion of real time experience/hints etc that will enhance the course.

The initial question of why does it seem that TDI is favoured over any other Agency is still open. Both are valid, both will deliver a specific result, as long as they prove they are wothy of the qualification. There is a small percentage of people that will interpret that 15 mins deco with a max EANx 50% does not give them the necessary "kudos" that TDI Adv N2/Deco provides....

My opinion FWIW is that people need to have the awareness of everything that is available, and this includes the course content of each agency before they make their mind up. The OP asked for us not to state "it depends on the instructor", but here is a parting question........

Do you REALLY NEED 100% O2 capability in such a limited area? This does not take away the achievements of those who do this course, because it is a transition, myself included, to other things.

I find it strange, but strangely reassuring, that we seem to come back to the same original questions when it comes to offering advice - when it comes to determining your next course, make sure you are not wearing blinkers, and look ahead, because your future objective should be based on a well thought out route... Don't just sign up - ask questions from active instructors, and just as importantly, active STUDENTS who have gone through each philosophy...

Thats my $0.02 worth

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by IanDennis

See above

Thanks, ian - it obviously took me too long to sort out my reply.

Which makes it a much more versatile course, but the versatility of combining the two TDI courses still looks more attractive to me - hoewver, i come from a biased option.

Perhaps my view on whether i was taught 1.6 or 1.4 have devloped over time in choices - i think i would still rather be choppered out with DCI than die from an O2 hit. 1.6 bar triples your O2 loading over 1.4.

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by gobfish1

IANTD had a reputation for crap / nonexistent training manuals

Absolutely I did my IANTD Adv Nitrox in 1997 and the manual was and still is awful, it is huge and confusing. I think it it me about 4 hours to wade through it for the exam.

Having said that I would like to do a limited trimix course this year, subject to me getting to bloody grips with these new skills and I have been recommended Phil Short who is an IANTD instructor and someone I hadn't heard of before (sorry Phil) you need to expose yourself more

It seems to offer me what I want and haven't done the Adv. Nitrox course and the IANTD Gas blender I will probably continue with them, I had also looked at doing the GUE Rec Triox course but it isn't available.

So if it means I can do dives with depths of around 35 - 45m with limited deco, something that has always bored me anyway with a clearer head then that seems to do what I would like it to.

Originally Posted by scubee

1.6 bar triples your O2 loading over 1.4.

All I know if that 1.6 is mentioned a lot in my IANTD Adv. Nitrox manual - so things might have changed over the years. I used more than 1.4 for a long time.

[big_si]

Originally Posted by Scubee

Perhaps my view on whether i was taught 1.6 or 1.4 have devloped over time in choices - i think i would still rather be choppered out with DCI than die from an O2 hit. 1.6 bar triples your O2 loading over 1.4.

I'm sure I was taught 1.4 bottom gas, 1.6 deco... However unless you're only using 100% and hanging at 6m you're only going to be at 1.6 when you switch and as you ascend that'll be dropping off (as will loading and deco efficiency.)

[gobfish1]

The IANTD Advanced Recreational Trimix course can be taken as an alternative to the IANTD Advanced Nitrox course for those divers who wish to take advantage of the reduced narcosis and associated safety benefits that helium-based bottom mixes offer. In addition to the Advanced Nitrox syllabus, the Advanced Recreational Trimix course covers the use of two standard recreational trimix bottom mixes - 32/15 and 28/25 - to a maximum depth of 48m.

i would go with the above course, and then change my mix to 23/25

as for the 15min deco well do you're 15mins then just hang about, for 45mins

[Janos]

Originally Posted by Bardo

Ok, here's an interesting point of discussion for ya...

I've noticed that most budding 'techies' on here seem to choose the TDI Advanced Nitrox / Deco Procedures courses over the IANTD equivelent, Advanced Recreational Trimix. Simple question - why?

From what I can see, the only real limitation of the IANTD ticket is that you're limited to a maximum of 15 minutes of deco but you do get access to two very useful 'recreational' trimix mixes - tx28/25 and tx32/15 - which provide something that the TDI courses cannot - that is, a narcosis-free head equivelent to just 20m at the ticket's maximum depth of 48m. Surely access to trimix in the 30-48m range is more useful than an 'unlimited deco' ticket?

So with this in mind, why do you chaps choose to go down the TDI route instead? Other than the very valid argument about the quality of the instructor being more important than the course, what is it about Adv EANx/Deco Procedures that makes it a more attractive option for some?

BTW - Let's assume, for the sake of argument that both agencies' courses are taught by equally capable instructors so please don't just respond with the usual 'Because XXX teaches it'. Let's assume that XXX can offer either course and therefore take this factor out of the equation!

Interesting question. I think you need to factor in progression. I'm not a tech instructor, but I believe that some people aren't ready for trimix but are ready for a small amount of accellerated deco, [1] as I believe that if you f'it up on a Helium dive it will hurt a lot more than if you f'up a Nitrox dive.

Personally I went down the accellerated deco route to do longer dives in the 30m to 40m range, then decided there was no point in doing OC trimix went CC.

Janos

[1] - I realise that AN&DP certifies the diver to do more than "a small amount of deco."

PS - I'm not sure where the 20m head comes from, I make it 35m, but then I treat O2 as narcotic