Are We Taking It Seriously Enough?

[Letz]

Originally Posted by A. Berk

Si did get it off his chest, so now its school-time and Howard is 100% correct in what he says as far as I am concerned. Open your text books and find out how a diver managed to get his gas consumption 50% wrong. Ask why he committed to a 40 minute deco dive when nowhere near 'dived-up' (ask his buddies too). There was a fcuk-up and thankfully no-one was lost however the legitimate question remains; Are you taking this diving mullarky seriously enough?

Berko - going back to retirement now... after greening Howard

Always nice to hear from you Berko but you are wrong.

Not on any diving points but the point of the forum which is to allow divers to tell their story, so others may learn, without fear of recrimination etc. and the whole ethos and faith in that has been broken, big time.

I certainly will not be so willing to post on there now, just so some know-it-alls can pick at my carcass in an effort to bask in their own already over-inflated egos

Really, sometimes I wonder where you guys get off .................... bit close to Dagenham perhaps

[David]

there was a very obvious solution to what happend and I am very supprised no one here has thought it out.

I had an exchange of pm's with SI and I was WRONG.. but form a gas management point of view, even he had to go check his kit. How come you lot have not posted anything about it. did you even notice ??????

Sorry but Si post is a good thing...even to just remind us that we all make mistakes... that is everyone.....

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by David

even to just remind us that we all make mistakes... that is everyone.....

Tell me about O2 deco David..

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by Sixsquid

Always nice to hear from you Berko but you are wrong.

Not on any diving points but the point of the forum which is to allow divers to tell their story, so others may learn, without fear of recrimination etc. and the whole ethos and faith in that has been broken, big time.

I certainly will not be so willing to post on there now, just so some know-it-alls can pick at my carcass in an effort to bask in their own already over-inflated egos

This sums up my feelings in a nutshell, as I said in the other thread I saw no evidence of backslapping just the community spirit that most of us on here adhere to.

I'm sure that this reaction will stop people from sharing their experiences lest the same thing happens to them.

Catch 22 really the 'we must dissect, discuss and ultimately point finger camps' will probably be responsible for that particular section drying up.

Safe diving,
Steve

[uwila]

Originally Posted by David

I had an exchange of pm's with SI and I was WRONG.. but form a gas management point of view, even he had to go check his kit. How come you lot have not posted anything about it. did you even notice ??????

Are you refering to his comment that he had an SAC of 300 l/min? I wondered about this and decided that he hadn't allowed for ambient pressure - he's corrected the post now.

[Al_Star]

Originally Posted by Sixsquid

Always nice to hear from you Berko but you are wrong.

Not on any diving points but the point of the forum which is to allow divers to tell their story, so others may learn, without fear of recrimination etc. and the whole ethos and faith in that has been broken, big time.

I certainly will not be so willing to post on there now, just so some know-it-alls can pick at my carcass in an effort to bask in their own already over-inflated egos

Really, sometimes I wonder where you guys get off .................... bit close to Dagenham perhaps

So what's the point of a forum where people post trip reports about near misses? Why should we let the lesson learnt stand if there have overlooked valid points that everyone can learn from?

Bit pointless to have such a sub-forum. Rather than "I learned from that" we should just call it "The sky is blue the grass is green, trip reports".

No doubt my view will of course will be assumed to be because I've done GUE training and can't think for myself! The myriad of mistakes that caught Si out all began long before he got in the water. As the BSAC incident pit slide puts it the sides of the pit get steeper the further you go and it becomes progressively harder to work your way out.

I'm glad he and his two buddies made it out. It's just a shame that the accident analysis thought process which has followed since the thread has been seen as negative when I'm sure the idea behind it was merely positive.

Al

[neilh]

Originally Posted by Sixsquid

Not on any diving points but the point of the forum which is to allow divers to tell their story, so others may learn, without fear of recrimination etc.

Originally Posted by Steve S

Catch 22 really the 'we must dissect, discuss and ultimately point finger camps' will probably be responsible for that particular section drying up.

Bit of selective quoting I know, but I just want to get something clear in my own mind - is the point of the "I learned..." forum to allow people to just post about things that have happened that they wish to share and that's as far as it goes - or is it for people to also "dissect and discuss" in an effort to identify what lessons could be learnt?

I completely agree Steve that "point finger camps" would be totally out of order and, as far as I understand, this wasn't the purpose for that part of the forum. However if there is no discussion about the incidents then I think the value is diluted somewhat. Having said that any such discussion must be carefully considered so that it doesn't come across in a confrontational or blaming fashion. Totally agree with Sixy - there should be no fear of recrimination either.

If discussion is not wanted in that section, then perhaps it should be set up so that people submit posts to mods who then publish them to a read-only section anonymously on their behalf?

[Crieagle]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

So what's the point of a forum where people post trip reports about near misses? Why should we let the lesson learnt stand if there have overlooked valid points that everyone can learn from?

Bit pointless to have such a sub-forum. Rather than "I learned from that" we should just call it "The sky is blue the grass is green, trip reports".

No doubt my view will of course will be assumed to be because I've done GUE training and can't think for myself! The myriad of mistakes that caught Si out all began long before he got in the water. As the BSAC incident pit slide puts it the sides of the pit get steeper the further you go and it becomes progressively harder to work your way out.

I'm glad he and his two buddies made it out. It's just a shame that the accident analysis thought process which has followed since the thread has been seen as negative when I'm sure the idea behind it was merely positive.

Al

Purely from a personal point of view found I the original post to be a strange prod at people who were not patting anybody on the back.

I think all to a man or woman agreed whether in public or not that mistakes had been made. People were just voicing their happiness at the fact that Si and co made it back.

After admitting his many mistakes, He then along with the posters gets preached to about bravado and back slapping and being told how dangerous it all is.

I know what Si did wrong, and I'm far from bright so I think everybody else can gleam that how Si went about his preparations and action during the dive were wrong especially after he proceeds to tell us as well.

Thankfully part of his training kicked in and between him and a buddy they sorted it out.

Think Mr Payne needs to learn tact, then this would not be where it is now. Agree that discussion and healthy contructive critism are important.

[Letz]

Originally Posted by neilh

Bit of selective quoting I know, but I just want to get something clear in my own mind - is the point of the "I learned..." forum to allow people to just post about things that have happened that they wish to share and that's as far as it goes - or is it for people to also "dissect and discuss" in an effort to identify what lessons could be learnt?

I completely agree Steve that "point finger camps" would be totally out of order and, as far as I understand, this wasn't the purpose for that part of the forum. However if there is no discussion about the incidents then I think the value is diluted somewhat. Having said that any such discussion must be carefully considered so that it doesn't come across in a confrontational or blaming fashion. Totally agree with Sixy - there should be no fear of recrimination either.

If discussion is not wanted in that section, then perhaps it should be set up so that people submit posts to mods who then publish them to a read-only section anonymously on their behalf?

There are a fair few threads on other forums where any dissecting can take place. That forum was specifically created so we, all of us, would feel comfortable posting about experiences for our and other's benefit.

It's not like we need a specific example to discuss these scenarios nor as if they are new. We train for them, we know they exist and this particular spin off took all of, what a few hours ?! I mean, show some respect! Apart from the fact that 3 divers were involved, a whole boat were there and many of the other YD members feel we have some entitlement to the reason for that forum being upheld. It's for all of us, experienced and new alike.

Not directed at you Neil, just responding to your points

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

So what's the point of a forum where people post trip reports about near misses? Why should we let the lesson learnt stand if there have overlooked valid points that everyone can learn from?

Bit pointless to have such a sub-forum. Rather than "I learned from that" we should just call it "The sky is blue the grass is green, trip reports".

No doubt my view will of course will be assumed to be because I've done GUE training and can't think for myself! The myriad of mistakes that caught Si out all began long before he got in the water. As the BSAC incident pit slide puts it the sides of the pit get steeper the further you go and it becomes progressively harder to work your way out.

I'm glad he and his two buddies made it out. It's just a shame that the accident analysis thought process which has followed since the thread has been seen as negative when I'm sure the idea behind it was merely positive.

Al

I cant folow your thaught process here. I have re read it a couple of times but I am confused.


I think your point is that we should feel free to offer critical assesment of the mistakes made. In which case thats a very valid argumnet. However in this case there isnt much analisis required. The mistakes were obvious.

ATB

Mark