HiD Vs LED - Where are we today?

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Rob Dobson

I don't follow this line of thought... If a light consisted purely of a bulb then I would agree with you: an LED bulb has a longer MTBF than a HiD bulb. Unfortunately a light has significantly more components than just the bulb and this is where I think you logic may be flawed. I think an LED light may require some additional components in terms of electronics and heat dissipation that HiDs do not require and therefore an LED could potentially have more to fail than a HiD. I certainly wouldn't assume that just because a light used an LED bulb it could not fail or that it was significantly less likely to fail than a HiD.

Fine, so ill get a Solus and throw it as hard as I can on to the tarmac of the carpark and you do the same with your Salvo and we will see whos works after.

FACT: Many friends have had Hid bulbs fail from slight knocks. Many ballasts have failed as well. Hid's need to be treated with kid gloves. Solus LED's crack walnuts in their spare time.

ATB

Mark

[JasonP]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

FACT: Many friends have had Hid bulbs fail from slight knocks. Many ballasts have failed as well. Hid's need to be treated with kid gloves. Solus LED's crack walnuts in their spare time.

This is probably tempting fate, but my deeply unfashionable Custom Divers 10w HID has served me problem free for something like 6 years with the original bulb and I've hardly treated it with kid gloves.

Jason

[AMW]

Hid's need to be treated with kid gloves

Not in my own experience I have used my HID in many caves (UK and abroad) and they seem to stand up to it well (even the carry in). Not as fragile as some seem to think, and the better (in my opinion) type of light output is worth the little extra care you need to take.

Andrew.

[Rob Dobson]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Fine, so ill get a Solus and throw it as hard as I can on to the tarmac of the carpark and you do the same with your Salvo and we will see whos works after.

Not the most useful comparison of light performance or the most scientific way of testing reliability. Although having said that I have inadvertently done this sort of testing already when I rolled my twinset out of the back of my 4x4 onto my Salvo. The Salvo survived unscathed but my manifold didn't fair so well

This sort of punishment would never happen actually on a dive but it was nice to know that the Salvo could take it.

I also managed to trap something in the lid once and went diving - flooding the canister in the process. I didn't notice until after the dive because the light managed to keep working. I was impressed with that as well but again not something I'd like to repeat.

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

FACT: Many friends have had Hid bulbs fail from slight knocks. Many ballasts have failed as well. Hid's need to be treated with kid gloves.

I have certainly seen plenty of HiD bulbs fail, sometimes because of the slightest knock and sometimes for no reason that I could see. All of them were Welch Allyn bulbs fitted to Halcyon lights. I have never known a Brightstar Bulb go although I am sure that it does happen and I don't know anyone who treats their Salvo with kids gloves. I certainly don't and I don't need to.

[Captain Deco]

I know that my solus is by no means a light sabre, but Mark Chase and Rob Dobson have dived with me and seen it in combat - and both stated it was a decent torch.

As it happens my overtime this month is already spent getting the upgrade for the solus so the beam is brighter, slighty more focussed and the charger is more live aboard compatible. Pricey I know, but such is the penalty for buying as soon as something comes out. I am very happy with my choice and no-one I have dived with has yet to say my torch is shit.

It's a good bit of kit. If I was rich enough I would have bought the monster one to begin with though!!

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by AMW

Not in my own experience I have used my HID in many caves (UK and abroad) and they seem to stand up to it well (even the carry in). Not as fragile as some seem to think, and the better (in my opinion) type of light output is worth the little extra care you need to take.

Andrew.

Good example here of one experience over another. I watched a Salvo Hid fall about 2ft on to the deck of a boat and blow the bulb. Dan went through 5 bulbs on his Custom Divers before he sold the torch and Pete went through three before he got rid of the Halcyon. My 21W salvo bulb went yellow after about 6 months but the replacement "upgrade" is working great.

I am however VERY careful with it. Wrapping it in an under suit for travel and purposefully putting it on the floor when i kit up so it has no further to fall.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Janos]

I have a Salvo and (touch wood) it hasn't broken yet. That's despite being dropped on the floor a couple of times.

Mind you that's almost certainly put the mockers on it now.

However, At what point does a torch become bright enough? I can't honestly see myself needing anything more than a 21W Salvo. It's more than sufficient. Will there continue to be an arms race in brightness?

Janos

[Rob Dobson]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Good example here of one experience over another. I watched a Salvo Hid fall about 2ft on to the deck of a boat and blow the bulb.

Out of interest was that an old WA bulb or a new BS bulb? If you're not sure then how long ago was it?

[AMW]

Good example here of one experience over another

Very true, in six years of using HIDs I have so far had one light unit fail. This is using HIDs in a caving environment. Maybe I am more fussy in sorting out the carry?

All in all we like what we like. I do also use LEDs and they are great as a back up light they run for ever. Colin I dive with likes big LEDs and has his reasons as I have mine for HIDs.

This in some ways is like the car marque discussion's, some time it has no base other than what you like for what ever reason


Andrew.

[Salvo]

I want to make sure everyone knows I have never said Kevin's products were inferior in any way or Salvo's products were better. My issue has always been that I strongly felt that Kevin has overrated the output of the LED's in comparison to HID's. I tried to back that up by taking output readings and taking side by side pictures. No, it is not the most scientific way of supporting what I say, but I did give a good faith effort to back up any thing I have stated.
As for durability of LED's verses HID bulbs, LED's will win that. As I have seen written below, there are far many more parts to building a light. Less that 5% of returns we see are bulb issues. BrightStar has gone a long way in improving the durability of HID bulbs. Both HID and LED lights have other parts in common. There are electronics, batteries, chargers, wiring, and construction. One big advantage to HID bulbs is the massive amount of light they produce via a single light source. This is a huge advantage when it comes to directing this light in whatever pattern you desire. A single light source generated by an LED is only around 200 lumens. To achieve a high lumen output, LED's are placed in arrays. This is a disadvantage for directing the beam at will.If the electronics fail, the light goes out, just like HID's. LED output has increased a great deal. Will they continue to increase and by how much can only be answered by those companies who develop them. To know that one would have to understand what drives these companies to increase the output. Most is for area lighting of homes, factories and outdoor. Is there a need for a very high output LED?
Kevin, you did a great job with what you had to work with. But I will always feel that LED's simply do not compare to HID's in output, yet. This is not to say LED's do not make good dive lights. I am sure many people will be happy with an LED primary light. I think they will be a bit disappointed when they compare it to the more powerful HID's if they were told they were the same thing.

Barry