HiD Vs LED - Where are we today?

[wilbo]

so what you are both saying is:

Both of your products are good
You think each others products are good
You admit that they have some areas where one beats the other
You admit that one product may be more applicable to one type of diving than the other
There has been some 'confusion' over reported figures - but it's not the end of the world


Time to move on?

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by Woz

It's simple. Both of them are like waving a huge penis around in the showers. The Salvo is longer but the Solus has a bigger helmet. Both impressive in their own way, and both good at doing different things- the Salvo is better at penetrating but the Solus is better off filling a broader cave.

Hehe. Let's pretend for a second that you're not talking about front bottoms but real caves. The problem is that cave walls positively *eat* light which is why a focused beam is preferable in such an environment. In my opinion, the wide spread of light produced by the Solus would prove rather ineffective in a cave. This is what Clare was referring to earlier when she commented that Mark Chase might not be quite so quick to go for a Solus after he's been cave diving in Mexico.

Bottom line, though, is that both torches are excellent but are clearly aimed at very different types of diver. For your average GUE/DIR diver, the current generation of LED technology is never going to appeal simply because the beam isn't tightly focused enough. Fact is, the torch is a fundamental part of the team diving system as it allows DIR divers to communicate with each other without physically facing each other - instead, they use their torches to project light signals over a distance so that it falls within the immediate view of the intended recipiant. For this sort of communication system to work, the beam must be tightly focused (ie. so there's no doubt about who the intended recipiant is) and bright enough that it's clearly visible. As Rob Dobson hinted at earlier, I too am yet to see an LED torch that can do this unless the team members are virtually fin to fin! For this reason alone, the Solus beam shown in all the images I've seen so far would clearly be inadequate.

Of course not everyone dives this way. Some divers just want to jump in, descend down a shot line and stick their heads inside a wreck to see what's in there. Such divers don't worry about light signals - they just want their torch to light up the spidge and blind the fish. For this sort of diver, something like a Solus could well be a good investment...

[divingniknaks]

Originally Posted by Rob Dobson

Out of interest was that an old WA bulb or a new BS bulb? If you're not sure then how long ago was it?

Just to "correct" this, Salvo has NEVER used WA bulbs. It must have been a BS bulb.

Unusual to say the least, but not impossible.

As for Marks comment about the yellowing, early bulbs did have a warmer colour temp, but it was still working I guess Mark ?

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[Rob Dobson]

Originally Posted by divingniknaks

Just to "correct" this, Salvo has NEVER used WA bulbs. It must have been a BS bulb.

Unusual to say the least, but not impossible.

As for Marks comment about the yellowing, early bulbs did have a warmer colour temp, but it was still working I guess Mark ?

.

I stand corrected - I thought the 1st generation Salvo's used WA... Must be medication time again huh?

[divingniknaks]

Just given the atmosphere over claims etc , I thought it best to set the record straight.

Surprised I've managed to stay out of this for this long


Nice to see Barry back on YD

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[Bardo]

Originally Posted by divingniknaks

Just to "correct" this, Salvo has NEVER used WA bulbs. It must have been a BS bulb.

Unusual to say the least, but not impossible.

As for Marks comment about the yellowing, early bulbs did have a warmer colour temp, but it was still working I guess Mark ?

.

Indeed. The very first generation of Salvos used the stubby 21w BrightStar bulb that is still used by Greenforce in its Impact 100 light head (see H3S below - not sure if this is the exact same bulb but they certainly look very similar). Although the light output wasn't quite as 'bluey white' as the later models, the biggest problem with it was that it had a tendancy to flicker. Later models with the newer style bulbs don't suffer from this, thankfully.

[Rob Dobson]

Didn't know you were a closet bulb geek...

[JasonP]

Originally Posted by Bardo

For your average GUE/DIR diver, the current generation of LED technology is never going to appeal simply because the beam isn't tightly focused enough. Fact is, the torch is a fundamental part of the team diving system as it allows DIR divers to communicate with each other without physically facing each other - instead, they use their torches to project light signals over a distance so that it falls within the immediate view of the intended recipiant. For this sort of communication system to work, the beam must be tightly focused (ie. so there's no doubt about who the intended recipiant is) and bright enough that it's clearly visible.

It's not a GUE/DIR thing. It's a cave thing. Strangely enough non-DIR cave divers use their torches to communicate too, and having looked at the photos of the LED torch, I think it would probably bug the crap out of anyone diving with someone in a cave who had one because it would seem like they're trying to signal you all the time because the beam is so wide.

Personally I've got a 10w HID which is apparently woefully inadequate by today's standards but still serves me well. Before that I got along just fine on a UK400. Most people don't need a huge torch. Honest. Really you don't. You're diving in the English Channel full of crappy little bits, not some pitch black cave full of crystal clear water.

What I think would be interesting would be a comparison under UK sea conditions, with a bit of snot in the water, different torches, how far away can you make out distinctive features? Because frankly what it looks like on someone's living room wall tells me little about what it's going to look like underwater.

Jason

[Darren555]

It was my impression that BrightStar bulbs are pretty robust.
IIRC Rob Lumb demonstrated this at the last dive show by repeatedly smacking the Impact 100 head against a large block of wood.

[Rob Dobson]

Originally Posted by JasonP

Most people don't need a huge torch. Honest. Really you don't. You're diving in the English Channel full of crappy little bits, not some pitch black cave full of crystal clear water.

What I think would be interesting would be a comparison under UK sea conditions, with a bit of snot in the water, different torches, how far away can you make out distinctive features? Because frankly what it looks like on someone's living room wall tells me little about what it's going to look like underwater.

Jason - some good points.

My diving is usually scootering around a wreck through snotty green water. Things happen quicker on a scooter and constant light contact is important if you're not intentionally diving solo. To me the beam is important not because I want to illuminate distinct features of a wreck at distance but because I don't want to lose people I'm supposed to be diving with (although there are times that holds a certain amount of attraction). So generally I want as tight a beam as possible that projects as far as possible.

I'll be sticking with HiD for the foreseeable.