solus torchs

[balbrigganbloke]

Have you spoken to Johnny Roger?
He was with them not too long ago and he put his own up against one if theirs
Talk to him

[jonny4846]

Not to dish the solus torches, they probably have the best build quilty of any torch I've seen out there and have seen kevin of SSP brake a work bench hitting it with a SU 1250. However, a torch's primary function is to provide illumination underwater and secondly some sort of signalling. Depending on the diving it might need to be, but not essentially an umbillical and have an extended burn time.

Anyway my point is, I was out with Kevin at SSP with money in my pocket to buy a SU 1250 and was kind of disappointed when I left with my old torch which had just blew the 1250 away. the 1250 produces 1250 Lumens output although it didn't seem like that compared to my torch. In fairness however, my Torch produces 1600 Lumens which out do's any 21w HID salvo or otherwise. I would say, 800E cheaper than a new one, but all those HID, LED umbillical's are all over priced, my torch cost 400E new nearly 2 years. You would want to be well set on an umbilical to splash nearly a grand on something which isnt the best for the job...

[Rob Dobson]

Originally Posted by jonny4846

my Torch produces 1600 Lumens which out do's any 21w HID salvo or otherwise. I would say, 800E cheaper than a new one, but all those HID, LED umbillical's are all over priced, my torch cost 400E new nearly 2 years.

I dive with and around a lot of different torches and in my experience it is only certain brands of 18-35W HiDs that are really ever effective in the water when it comes to signalling (namely Salvo and Halcyon - i.e both Barry Miller designs). I am curious to know what light you are using which you say is better than a 21W Salvo and yet a fraction of the price?

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by jonny4846

Not to dish the solus torches, they probably have the best build quilty of any torch I've seen out there and have seen kevin of SSP brake a work bench hitting it with a SU 1250. However, a torch's primary function is to provide illumination underwater and secondly some sort of signalling. Depending on the diving it might need to be, but not essentially an umbillical and have an extended burn time.

Anyway my point is, I was out with Kevin at SSP with money in my pocket to buy a SU 1250 and was kind of disappointed when I left with my old torch which had just blew the 1250 away. the 1250 produces 1250 Lumens output although it didn't seem like that compared to my torch. In fairness however, my Torch produces 1600 Lumens which out do's any 21w HID salvo or otherwise. I would say, 800E cheaper than a new one, but all those HID, LED umbillical's are all over priced, my torch cost 400E new nearly 2 years. You would want to be well set on an umbilical to splash nearly a grand on something which isnt the best for the job...

The light Jonny Rogers on about is a 50 Watt xenophot handheld. When he turned up at SSP to try it against the SU-1250 I figured it would be a pushover.
When we tested the two side by side it peformed very well. At that point I suggested that John keep diving it until it wasn't doing the job anymore, and then come back and hand over his money. (not a very good sales technique I admit)

The bulb used in Jonny's light was one of the highest spec Xenophot bulbs you can get.

Although the light was more intense there are a few other things to take into account.
1. The light was quite yellow in comparison to the SU-1250 (or any HID lamp).
It's generally accepted that higher colour temp light penetrates better underwater. (it might even be true)
2. There was a very pronounced hot-spot in the beam (I'm sure Rob would like this), which produced a very high intensity. The beam profile was more like a Salvo than the SU-1250.
3. There were a lot of artifacts in the beam from the reflector, suggesting the reflector wasn't actually designed for that bulb. Some streaks coming out the side of the beam and a few shadows. Easy enough to get used to but would annoy fussy bastards like me.
4. The burn times weren't great - I think John said the burntimes were about 40 minutes. This wouldn't be surprising given the power the bulb was using. The su-1250 it was being compared against has burntimes of 2.5 hours on full power and up to ten hours on 25% power.
5. The manufacturer of that xenophot bulb quotes a mean life of 100 hours. (That's in a projector - not a dive lamp) I've since spoken to someone who uses the same bulb in his dive light and says that in reality he gets about 15 hours between changes. The bulbs only cost about 10 quid each so it's not an issue if you're doing non-critical dives.
6. Like any filament or glass bulb lamp this light isn't going to be very resistant to shock. Drop it when it's turned off and you might get away without a bulb change. Drop it while it's running and it's game over.
7. This particular light was quite large/heavy and would be at the extreme end of what people would consider a "hand-held" light. (this made the big Kolwalski's look compact)

The main reasons why canister/umbilical lights exist are: longer burn times and getting the battery (and most of the weight) out of your hand and onto your harness. More light - more power - more bateries.
I'm sure that Jonny's right in saying that his light is as intense as the 21 Watt HIDs his buddies dive with. I doubt the burntimes, weight and light head size compare though.
Given that the light had a very good output and was still working it was a bit hard to justify selling someone another light - hence the suggestion to keep using it.

Ultimately it's about more than just the amount of light you get out of a light. It's about the qualities of the light and the beam, burntimes (performance) and reliability.

Also before anyone starts flaming me about snake oil, smoke and mirrors, There's some information about lumen ratings, reflectors and even scary stuff like "refraction" here SOLUS Submersible Products . It's all based on real observable physics unlike some of the pseudoscience that seems to do the rounds of the diving forums.

Regards,

KevJ

[Mark]

Kev,

I notice that your lights do not have a shroud extending from the reflector like all the Salvo and Haycyon HID lightheads do. I would have thought that the beam would be tightend-up considerably if such a thing was used on the SOLUS light heads. Have you any plans to make such a thing?

Cheers,

Mark.

[RogerViking]

hi i was very impressed with your set up in harolds cross kev you may see me in the new year as i said to you ..

ok i very happy with the solus have tryed it out.
i have also have a 24w HID BARKBUSTER which costs €270 not a bad price for a rechargable im giving that ago this w/end with my buddy.

johnys bouchant was a good torch and i gave that a go a few weeks back and thought it was great well worth the cash he paid .
however im taking into account the life of the bulb, if one goes pop during a dive the second dive youll be banging your head off the nearst wreck thinking i should have brought another set of bulbs.
also the ubilys are nice forwhat diving i do. i like a nice robust torch and the solus certanily stands up plus the fact that you dont have to open the canister to recharge is a bonus.

himmm if i dont get the salvo il prob get the solus and its looking that way so far

thanks to kev for sorting out the handle on tues.
hats off to johny for alowing me to nag on at him and borrow his lamp
and not forgeting barre cheers il b in touch and mick F and ardill for there words of wisdom ......blah blah blah and chasey for doing it his way 'only kidding' greens on there way.....

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by Mark

Kev,

I notice that your lights do not have a shroud extending from the reflector like all the Salvo and Haycyon HID lightheads do. I would have thought that the beam would be tightend-up considerably if such a thing was used on the SOLUS light heads. Have you any plans to make such a thing?

Cheers,

Mark.

Hi Mark,

The SSP lamps and units from Salvo and Halcyon use very different optics. In the SSP lights the beam shaping takes place before the light passes through the glass. In the others the beam shaping takes place after the light passes out from the glass (wet reflector). Adding an external shroud wouldn't really achieve much.

The SSP lights weren't designed to copy the beam profile of the Halcyon or Salvo lights. The SSP lights were designed for open water / wreck diving in average visibility. The beam angle suits this application. The Halcyon HIDs and clones were designed for diving in the Florida cave systems where visibility can be hundreds of feet and the length of the tunnel is the limiting factor. The narrow beam angle suits that application.
After talking to a senior cave instructor / course director who has used our lights in Florida, we're seriously thinking about a cave version - but we need to be sure that the market is large enough to pay back the design and development costs.

Regards,

KevJ

[jonny4846]

just some correction's to Kevin's comparison.
1: I've had that particular bulb over a year and its definatley done more than 15 hours of diving and at 10 quid plenty of spares can be kept...
2: I get a full hour out of the battery on full power, not great in comparison to umbilical's. But less than half the price I can buy two..
3: It is quite heavy and large, 2kg on surface, -.5kg bouyant in water. replaces a bit of lead. But this housing makes it very robust and sturdy, has taken many bangs on ribs and boats alike and hasn't broke the bulb or damaged the housing....

P.S. for my type of diving an umbilical is ideal, which is why I went to see Kevin. But until all the factors are equal, i.e. light output, burntime (an hour is plenty though), cost etc. I can't see any light justify the price's...

P.S.S. I'am not too bother about the yellow glow from a halogen versus the cool light of HID and LED's, actually prefer the warmth. HID's look and make me feel cold....

[richie wake]

well i bit the bullet today and orderd the big daddy the su2500 should have it this week . the only thing is i think my wife will beat the crap out of me if she finds out what it cost i cant wait to get it in the water.

[Paul Evans]

Originally Posted by richie wake

well i bit the bullet today and orderd the big daddy the su2500 should have it this week . the only thing is i think my wife will beat the crap out of me if she finds out what it cost i cant wait to get it in the water.

Hi Darling..........

So have you got another unit