halcyon vs greenforce etc

[warmwaterdiver]

Originally Posted by purple vonny

None of you are mentioning prices. I've been saving since Christmas for a decent torch. Then got my council tax, water bill and TV license reminders all in in one week.

Are all of these £400+? That seems to be about the range I was looking at. Is there anything for about £250 that is good for 35 metres or so? Bimbles and photos are the sort of thing I do for fun. Or should I just stick to the old halogen rechargable?

secondhand good quality torches such as the Custom Divers, Salvo and the Sartek 10W HIDs generally sell for £200-250 depending upon condition and age

might be something to consider

I know of a 10W Salvo for sale, I was interested but I've already got a CD10W umbilical and a CD10W handheld

[purple vonny]

Originally Posted by warmwaterdiver

secondhand good quality torches such as the Custom Divers, Salvo and the Sartek 10W HIDs generally sell for £200-250 depending upon condition and age

might be something to consider

I know of a 10W Salvo for sale, I was interested but I've already got a CD10W umbilical and a CD10W handheld

Can you PM me the details please? x

[rob lumb]

the greenforce outputs are like kevin said from solus thanks kevin.so they are not plucked out of the air as rob dobson says.the 100 watt impact .compact and the new 150 watt standard and focusable all use brightstar bulbs like salvo.greenforce have been using brightstar bulbs since they came into the diving market and were the first torch manufacturer to use these bulbs.so how mr dobson has not seen a greenforce that is any good in the 6 years plus we have been selling the brightstar bulbs i do not know.the only difference between the salvo is that you can focus the beam from very narrow to wide,which like has been said depending on your diving needs can be a good thing.so depending on your diving needs greenforce is definitely in the same class as the salvo halcyon etc.and also you can add to your greenforce with it being modular,by just ppurchasing a new head.not everyone can afford to buy the big hid heads from the start,so you can add as you go along.each person has there own opinion.

if you need to know anything else do not hesitate to contact me.

rob

[Scuttler]

Originally Posted by purple vonny

I guess I need to borrow a few and try them out.

You're welcome to borrow my Salvo. (21W new price is £780 so outside the £400 budget).

The only other thing that you need to consider is where you'll mount it. The Salvo is great if you have a harness set up. But if you have the standard BCD single cylinder arrangement then I'm not sure where you'd mount it. (oo err)

[Scuttler]

Originally Posted by MidnightCowboy

The salvo focus (as far as i know from the year old models ive seen) are flick a switch instant wide beam or narrow beam.

The focus head has a nylon grub screw. You unscrew it half a turn and then pull the shroud forward or backward depending on whether you want a wide beam or a saber.

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by rob lumb

the greenforce outputs are like kevin said from solus thanks kevin.so they are not plucked out of the air as rob dobson says.the 100 watt impact .compact and the new 150 watt standard and focusable all use brightstar bulbs like salvo.greenforce have been using brightstar bulbs since they came into the diving market and were the first torch manufacturer to use these bulbs.so how mr dobson has not seen a greenforce that is any good in the 6 years plus we have been selling the brightstar bulbs i do not know.the only difference between the salvo is that you can focus the beam from very narrow to wide,which like has been said depending on your diving needs can be a good thing.so depending on your diving needs greenforce is definitely in the same class as the salvo halcyon etc.and also you can add to your greenforce with it being modular,by just ppurchasing a new head.not everyone can afford to buy the big hid heads from the start,so you can add as you go along.each person has there own opinion.

if you need to know anything else do not hesitate to contact me.

rob

Rob - of course Rob was merely offering his own opinion - as does everyone else on this public forum.

The part in red above for me hits the nail on the head - Greenforce torches in their current guise are not suitable for the diving I do - as I simply don't believe they can perform as well at signalling as the Salvo and Halcyon.

A tight focused spot beam is very important for passive communication. A diffused beam just doesn't work as well and may leave communication open to interpretation rather than being concise.

I used to own a GF torch and was quite happy with it when I owned it. It did the job for the diving I was doing at the time.

just my 2p.

[Rob Dobson]

Originally Posted by rob lumb

the greenforce outputs are like kevin said from solus thanks kevin.so they are not plucked out of the air as rob dobson says.the 100 watt impact .compact and the new 150 watt standard and focusable all use brightstar bulbs like salvo.greenforce have been using brightstar bulbs since they came into the diving market and were the first torch manufacturer to use these bulbs.so how mr dobson has not seen a greenforce that is any good in the 6 years plus we have been selling the brightstar bulbs i do not know.the only difference between the salvo is that you can focus the beam from very narrow to wide,which like has been said depending on your diving needs can be a good thing.so depending on your diving needs greenforce is definitely in the same class as the salvo halcyon etc.and also you can add to your greenforce with it being modular,by just ppurchasing a new head.not everyone can afford to buy the big hid heads from the start,so you can add as you go along.each person has there own opinion.

if you need to know anything else do not hesitate to contact me.

rob

I now understand where the figures come from now but may I ask the relevance of Halogen light output labelling on HiD lights? When HiD was new I can see that the information may have been useful in assisting buyers making informed choices but when it is the actual name of the light it is at best confusing if not misleading.

Some marketing bod may think it gives GF lights the edge to quote bigger headline figures than the competition but then why stop there? Why not quote 'glow worms'? The light industry already has standard figures which could be quoted: candles, kelvin and lumen as well as the figure directly relevant to the technology (i.e "18W HiD" for an 18W HiD like other vendors do).

This marketing approach could actually be counter-productive as divers may have their expectations set in the wrong place. This has certainly been my own experience when GF owners have declared their lights to be 50W HiDs, 100W HiDs and 250W HiDs before jumping in. If I had translated "100W HiD" to mean "similar to a 100W Halogen" then maybe I would have known what to expect, but when someone says that and I am holding a 21W HiD I am expecting something nearly 5 times brighter not significantly less effective.

Many UK divers use their lights just to illuminate holes and chase lobsters around wrecks and the GFs are plenty good enough for that application, as are most of the lights on the market starting around the £50 price point. I rely on my primary lights for much more than that and therefore have different expectations of light performance. Maintaining team contact in low visibility (especially whilst scootering) is central to my diving. Not everyone has that requirement.

[rob lumb]

thanks wilbo and rob for your opinions will take them on board.


cheers
rob

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by rob lumb

thanks wilbo and rob for your opinions will take them on board.


cheers
rob

we're all friends here - nothing is meant personally and its all meant constructively.

[hyweldavies]

Here's a few comments from a Greenforce user, 100 odd dives with it, and to put in context, only 150 dives altogether.

I bought the GF 35W pro-head halogen with the F2 battery pack, which I belt-mounted (using two jubilee clips to hold a piece of belt (verticall) to make a belt loop. Changed the bulb for a 50W domestic halogen. Excellent light giving perhaps 90 minutes burn, which is more than enough for a day's diving for me.

Upgraded to their 21W HID head - so-called 100W equivalent (a fleabay semi-bargain). It is somewhat brighter but to the extent of being a luxury rather than a necessity. It's also a bit big to handle, though not excessively so. Lasts much longer burn-time, but this is of no consequence to me as there's plenty of electricity coming out the wall-socket for the next day ! I've seen in use, but not used myself, their 10W HID (50-watt equiv) and think it's perhaps a better size / cash / brightness compromise. Mine's non-focussable, though does have a beam. The signalling thing isn't that important to me, so bow to others' experience on that, but I'd still thought it would be OK if not the best necessarily. I believe they may do a focussable one if that's a big thing for you.

All in all I'm happy with the greenforce in halogen and HID configs , and would certainly consider their 10W (50 equiv) HID if buying again, though Halogen's still got a lot to be said for it in the value-for-money stakes and if you need the burn-time get a bigger battery. LED is probably the future, but perhaps not there yet. In my other sport of caving (non-diving), LEDs have now won the "battle of the bulbs", so it can't be long for diving too.

I've seen being used, but not owned the Halcyon 10W HID, and at a little over £300 seemed a good unit and good value too (what a thing to say about Halcyon !).

I've seen on the page, but not in real-life, the Salvo all-in-one rather than umbilical 10W HID. The whole thing looks similarly sized to the lamp unit on my 21W head, albeit bigger than the 10W, so it's perhaps questionable to bother with an umbilical at all ?

If I was personally buying again I'd budget £300 to £400 tops, and probably get one or other of the 10W HIDs, with GF, Salvo, and Halcyon (at least) all being contenders. Mind you halogen is still better value, and I would check the state-of-play in LED land too as my Salvo RAT2 backup light is stunning for what it is.

Hywel