Enthusiasm beats knowledge on cylinder rigging?

[MATTBIN]

I dont wish to slag off another diver and God knows I am not that experienced but a new thread has opened on Handbag.net where a newbie (23 dives) Bsac Club diver wants to know if its OK to strap-on another cylinder to his BCD and dive twinned up? Am I being over protective or does it seem that he's running before walking?

[Mark]

Looks like he needs setting straight on a few things.


(Edited by Mark at 12:46 pm on Feb. 21, 2003)

[MartinS]

Best get me head down than as i posted a response....
I'm not here!

[Dr Stevil]

I trained a Greek lad to dive a couple of years ago, he hadn't even done any OW training dives before he was asking about trimix! FFS

[jjflash]

No Matt, I don't think you are, i thought it was way too quick myself. I've done around 450 dives and I'm only thinking about twins now (with LIDs coming up and a trip to Portland after that) and it will no doubt be a fairly steep learning curve again.

Yo have to question a lot of peoples motives for twinning/tech style diving - it looks and sound great but you have to understand that yes there are safety benefits but it's also easier to get yourself in world of crap due to the extended ranges and run times the gear will give you.

At 23 dives I wouldn't be anywhere near twins and I think a lot of this type of attitude is brought on by the type of talk we've all seen recently, esp on the other side where it seems just about anyone is a tech king. If a posting asks about whether, for example a fin is good then it get a handful of replies. Post about the length of your studding for your backplate however and the world and his wife comes out the woodwork. Same if anyone asks about what BC is good - get some wings is invariably said.

Just get on and do the simple stuff first and stop trying to run before you can walk

Hmmm - thats my rant over I'm going to lunch now ! :soapbox:

Cheers all
Paul

(Edited by jjflash at 1:51 pm on Feb. 21, 2003)


(Edited by jjflash at 1:52 pm on Feb. 21, 2003)

[Mdemon]

Hang on, chaps!

Is the guy thinking of doing deep/techy/complex dives?  Or is he just after redundancy?

If he's not using a pony, then is there really any problem with carrying on his current diving but with an extra 12 litres of air?  On balance, he'll be safer, surely?  Swapping regs is not difficult - I'd suggest it's a lot easier than buddy breathing when OOA.  An extra 12 is heavy, true, and he'll need to check his buoyancy, but overall, I'd suggest he's going to be safer, and less of a liability to his buddy.  Looks like he needs some to take some advice from his instructor on configuration, but I'm finding it hard to see a downside...

Any thoughts?

[jjflash]

quote from the guys post:
'I had assumed you would need a wing to dive with a
twinset and a different method of mounting the bottles. It would appear that diving with a twinset offers twice the saftey and extended time at the bottom so I thought I would try it. As I have 2 Octopus rigs and 2 12L bottles can I just fasten the 2 bottles to my buddy and off I go?'

As I read that he's not really sure as to why he wants twins - yep he's mentioned the safety side but how will he manage the his kit to GIVE him the safety. He then mentions the extended bottom time...

Maybe it's just me but he seems a bit undecided as to the whys and wherefore of the kit ....I duno, like Matt said I don't want to slag him 'cos he might be a brill diver but it all seems a bit 'I've seen this shiny new kit and I want it'

Ho hum
Paul

[MATTBIN]

I'm all for the redundancy/greater safety aspect but he also mentions he has 23 dives to date. I think he needs to be advised to take it slow and safe and seek extra advice before 'buying and dying', a number of people have suggested that (including Bren) so I hope he heeds the help he's received. His post was on there a while before he got any response, I was concerned he'd just go do it.
Thanks guys.
Matt

[Davey Willo]

Well you see I'm one of those people that doesn't see a problem with a new diver moving to twins or even starting with twins.. I see a twinset as the ultimate in safety, the top rung in redundancy, I see a wing and BP far superior to a baggy BC with a single 12-15 strapped to it flopping from side to side, a baggy BC which can then become a chest crushing restrictive BC once it's inflated near full.

I see too many new divers diving with no redundancy at all simply because this is how they are taught (my buddy is my redundancy right?) I then see divers bolting on a lopsided pony bottle to add a certain amount of 'real' redundancy that a twinset would of superceded from the outset, and they do this only because they started off with a single cylinder and BC in the first place, it becomes and addon to an inferior system dictated by the wrong initial choice of equipment in the first place... (How do I know this? cos I was one of them)

Imagine a world where a new diver is taken into the pool and handed a harness/bp and wing with say twin sevens bolted to it, imagine he's then taught all about redundancy, he's taught what to do in the case of first or second stage failures, imagine he's taught to shutdown that freeflow thats about to end his dive or even worse empty his cylinder, imagine after he becomes used to the balance of the twins, used to the non constrictive harness instead of the chest crushing balloons of a BC, imagine after he had gotten used to the perfect horizontal trim and total redundancy that his rig allows him and then imagine that someone suggested that he give it all away and go diving with a big fluffy loose jacket with pockets that he could strap a single cylinder to, which if required would allow him the option to bolt on a lop sided pony bottle for his limited redundancy and then watch him laugh in your face.

Why would anyone think that twins are limited to those with masses of experience and should not be used by novices? I suggest that every diver especially new ones should be given the benefit of maximum comfort and safety, suggesting that they will then dive longer and deeper therefore shouldn't be allowed is not really an argument as every single diver is taught how to conduct a no stage stop dive irrelevant of how much gas they may carry.

regards
Dave

[Mdemon]

I'll buy that.

I think the cost of the gear would be prohibitive, but that doesn't preclude manufacturers coming up with an all-in-one twin in the future.