'Out Of Air Scenarios' - The Debate.

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Foggy

I'm sure you meant water or isotonic fluids

What? After a dive going wrong? No way, tea, bag left in the mug, four sugars and at least a couple of Kit Kats. Half a bottle of Ardbeg is my first choice but is quite unusual to find on dive boats

[Janos]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

What? After a dive going wrong? No way, tea, bag left in the mug, four sugars and at least a couple of Kit Kats. Half a bottle of Ardbeg is my first choice but is quite unusual to find on dive boats

You shouldn't need the kitkats if you've had a greasy bacon butty before the dive to 'soak up' excess Nitrogen. But it's sensible to eat them just in case.

Janos

[TerryH]

Sorry dont understand the question.
30m, edging deco and OOA?

Add lost buddy and you only have one option - the surface, fast!

Of course take a pony or twins and the result ie VERY diffrerent.

So the awnser to what would you do first in OOA?

Make sure that you carry enough of an independent reserve that you dont
need that buddy.

TerryH

[Finless]

Originally Posted by TerryH

Sorry dont understand the question.
30m, edging deco and OOA?

Add lost buddy and you only have one option - the surface, fast!

Of course take a pony or twins and the result ie VERY diffrerent.

So the awnser to what would you do first in OOA?

Make sure that you carry enough of an independent reserve that you dont
need that buddy.

TerryH

Terry,

The opening question was a specific "what would you do if" and not a question of how to avoid the problem in the first place.

Thank you for giving the opportunity to be smug

I also apologise for using your reply as my "quote" when I could have used so many others (including my own earlier post).

[Keiron]

I would imagine you would use more gas using the buddy breathing technique as

C02 loadings would be higher as breaths are being held
the added mental stress of not having an air source at all times
the increased workload of swapping, monitoring your buddy etc
using the purge button to clear the air before breathing

Whereas on the octopus you are going to be doing much, much less work and hopefully, should be more relaxed.

That's my thoughts anyway.

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Janos

You shouldn't need the kitkats if you've had a greasy bacon butty before the dive to 'soak up' excess Nitrogen. But it's sensible to eat them just in case.

Janos

Yeah a lot of people don't realise this. The lard provides a protective barrier that nitrogen struggles to get through. You can add about another ten minutes per sausage. Black pudding... better than nitrox.

I did have a dive go so bad once that I got out the water, walked to the nearest offie, bought a bottle of wine and got totally legless before anyone else made it back.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Yeah a lot of people don't realise this. The lard provides a protective barrier that nitrogen struggles to get through. You can add about another ten minutes per sausage. Black pudding... better than nitrox.

I did have a dive go so bad once that I got out the water, walked to the nearest offie, bought a bottle of wine and got totally legless before anyone else made it back.

Legless? Was that the wine or the DCI before the wine cured the problem?

[Phideaux]

I know I've been out of active diving for some time now and only just getting back into it, but I'm becomming more and more alarmed at the posts that I see about (alleged) diver behaviour in an OOA situation. It apears that everyone is of the opinion that the first thing an OOA diver does is rip the DV from his/her buddy's mouth; hence the discussions about the best way to store/deploy the main and back-up DVs, their length, position on the body/neck, how htey're securred, colour etc.

Perhaps I've been fortunate as I have never experienced, seen, or heard from a reliable source, this sort of behaviour from a properly trained diver (or any diver, actually). Yes, I have been an OOA diver and yes I have had an OOA buddy (novice, to my shame). On neither occassion was there panic or anything other than a well rehersed series of signals and responses (both occassions requiring buddy breathing).

I would be very interested to know just how many divers out there have actually experienced being an OOA diver, or have aided an OOA diver. I'd particularly like to see their views on how the situation was initially appraised (an "O my God, I'm going to die" event or a "hmmm, I've been trained for this and practiced what to do" event), how it was dealt with at the time, and particularly what the learning outcomes were.

Perhaps, with so many more people 'holiday' diving, the level of training - read 'practiced drills' - has deminished to a level where every buddy should be viewed as either a leathal risk, or perhaps as a mobile, expendable, air source depending on your attitude.

Provocative? I hope so!

PS. Is there a spell check facility on this site? I'm crap at long words.

[johntemp]

Surely the situation should be one of getting yourself prepared for the worst case panic situation.
Personally I have a long hose on my main reg and a minimal hose on my octopus. Should someone have an ooa emergency and do proper signals etc then I will pass them my main reg. If they panic and go for my main reg then I will put my octupus in my mouth as it is right under my chin.

It seems as though a number of scenarios are covered by this but there are still so many unknowns such as the diver panicing, grabing your primary and then bolting for the surface. You are unlikely to be able to stop them.

The one thing that I would not rely on is that everyone that you dive with is completely trustworthy and you know exactly what they will do under a panic situation - you don't. Anyone can be potentially very dangerous when they panic.

[cod3r]

Seconded. What has caused those rumours of killer buddies on the loose?

Granted I haven't got 1,000's of dives. However I have neither a permanent buddy nor a club and virtually every dive I do I'm buddied up with a stranger. I've dived with buddies across the spectrum, dive gods and just-certified noobs.

I never refuse buddying up with people, and thankfully there has not been a shortage of people buddying up with me. I think you'll agree that missing out on dives would be a shame.

While some people's skills are less than perfect (as are mine I'm sure) I have yet to encounter the dreaded killer buddy. What's up?

Let alone forums, I think "Diver" magazine has a lot to answer for.

That's me down on record.

EDIT: I came to Phideaux's post from the main page and didn't see the original topic. Apologies for the hijack!

- cod3r