'Out Of Air Scenarios' - The Debate.

[Richard Mason]

Originally Posted by MattS

What I would do is use the Octo and ascend as close to 3m as possible. That would both increase the speed of decompression and reduce the volume of gas being breathed.

...when are UK divers going to stop thinking that ascending above 6m will immediately bend them?

20-25 years ago, we didn't, on a no-stop dive, we just surfaced straight from the bottom at no more than 15M/minute, climbed in the boat and sucked down a cigarette. And I never got bent and I didn't know anyone else who did either.

That's not to say people didn't, I'm sure the rate of DCS on no-stop dives without a precautionary was higher than it is now and I always put one in, but it wouldn't phase me if I couldn't do one; after all, "precautionary" means what it says, it's like wearing a seat belt, not wearing one won't put you through the windscreen on any/every drive you take.

[Richard Mason]

Originally Posted by TerryH

So the answer to what would you do first in OOA?

Make sure that you carry enough of an independent reserve that you dont
need that buddy.

TerryH

Me too. Relying on buddies as first port of call in OOA is just dumb. In practice, I think at best that you are just putting his life in danger too, which is a bit unfair.

It's the pony or twins every time, or should be. It's really got me bu99ered why the leading agencies don't strongly recommend, as matter of course, that all divers carry an IAAS, perhaps with a proviso of all dives beyond 18M.

Actually, it hasn't got me bu99ered at all, I reckon I know exactly why.

[Richard Mason]

Originally Posted by cod3r

Seconded. What has caused those rumours of killer buddies on the loose?

Granted I haven't got 1,000's of dives. However I have neither a permanent buddy nor a club and virtually every dive I do I'm buddied up with a stranger. I've dived with buddies across the spectrum, dive gods and just-certified noobs.

I never refuse buddying up with people, and thankfully there has not been a shortage of people buddying up with me. I think you'll agree that missing out on dives would be a shame.

While some people's skills are less than perfect (as are mine I'm sure) I have yet to encounter the dreaded killer buddy. What's up?

Let alone forums, I think "Diver" magazine has a lot to answer for.

That's me down on record.

EDIT: I came to Phideaux's post from the main page and didn't see the original topic. Apologies for the hijack!

- cod3r

My killer buddy was a Canadian on a Cairns-GBR daytrip. O-ring extruded/blew out on my sh1tty valve, my air went north and the spg needle went south. I raced over to him, gave the OOA signal and grabbed his occy. He took fright and fought me off, resulting in me doing a CESA, from about 10m.

Since then, I've dived self sufficient with a biggish (4L x 230 bar) pony.

[Richard Mason]

Originally Posted by Phideaux

I would be very interested to know just how many divers out there have actually experienced being an OOA diver, or have aided an OOA diver. I'd particularly like to see their views on how the situation was initially appraised (an "O my God, I'm going to die" event or a "hmmm, I've been trained for this and practiced what to do" event), how it was dealt with at the time, and particularly what the learning outcomes were.

I have, twice; the last time was on the GBR as per other post in this thread. The first time was at 30M in Hodge Close in 1981. Dumb, dumb dumb, I just ran out of air, no excuses, just shithouse personal admin on my part.

This was in the days before occies were in use in the UK, at that time, they were regarded as Yankee Spawn of the Devil by BSAC who said they were just an excuse for lax training standards - we spent lots and lots of time buddy breathing off one reg to prove it.

Anyway, I took one look at my buddy, who was looking a bit worried at my OOA signal and just thought, nah, this isn't fair on him and kicked up and did the CESA, or Free Ascent, as it was then known. As the ambient pressure dropped, I got a couple of more breaths out of my regulator and made it to the surface. No panic, no worries, it worked just like Mr Boyle promised it would.

[Smiling Dragon]

Originally Posted by Richard Mason

My killer buddy was a Canadian on a Cairns-GBR daytrip. O-ring extruded/blew out on my sh1tty valve, my air went north and the spg needle went south. I raced over to him, gave the OOA signal and grabbed his occy. He took fright and fought me off, resulting in me doing a CESA, from about 10m.

Clucking Bell! He paniced 'cos you grabbed his _occy_???
Never had an OOA but assisted another once - no dramas apart from my forgetting my equipment config and offering him my Air-2 at first (me = dumb). I've had my reg pulled out by a flailing diver (she wasn't out of air, just clumsy).
Actually, that same diver (she swears accidentally) kicked me where no man should be kicked with the edge of her fin the very next day too - pretty neat trick as you have to sort of twist sideways to get the fin the right way round to come up between the legs all knife-ish like that. Maybe she's one of these 'killer buddies' we hear about.

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Richard Mason

My killer buddy was a Canadian on a Cairns-GBR daytrip. O-ring extruded/blew out on my sh1tty valve, my air went north and the spg needle went south. I raced over to him, gave the OOA signal and grabbed his occy. He took fright and fought me off, resulting in me doing a CESA, from about 10m.

Since then, I've dived self sufficient with a biggish (4L x 230 bar) pony.

The buddy is definitely the most unpredictable piece of equipment on the dive and arguably the most unreliable. When faced with personal danger the rhetoric soon goes out of the window. Sadly this is true of buddies you have dived with for years as well as total strangers.

Go self sufficient or reduce the risk of buddy failure by practicing practicing every dive and refusing to dive with any one except the person you practiced with.

Self sufficient is safer and more reliable IMHO.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Sooty Stoo]

Gosh I'm surprised that no-one has come up with the best idea.

Evolve gills.

Easy!!

[Richie]

Originally Posted by Phideaux

Perhaps?
By the way, my original question was as a survey - who has experienced OOA?

I have from both sides: -

As a "sufferer" - in a wreck solo. I had been very pleased with my gas consumption. Using twins but single reg - this was the dark ages. Gas suddenly stopped.
I got out of the wreck and surfaced using the crack bottle on the ABLJ taking a couple of breaths each cycle before emptying and refilling the bag.
Turned out that the SPG had failed.

As a donor - working on a salmon cage mooring system in about 20m. I had the dubious pleasure of diving with the Company DO who had lots of theory but actually dived rarely. This was pre HSE involvement in these things.

Said DO liked to test people and he have the OOA signal, I had plenty gas so thought he was just testing, I was busy, and responded with 2 fingers. (He was about a metre away ). I knew he was serious when he repeated the signal and ripped the reg from my mouth - no octopus used either.
We completed our ascent and I received a justified bollocking.

I never did see him dive again.............

Attitudes have changed over the years - much less exciting now.

[witchieblackcat]

Originally Posted by Darren A

1) One breath off primary, the other off octo for as long as the gas allows, then ascend

2) or both alternatly breathe off the primary, therefore doubling (or at least increasing) the amount of time they can stay at 6m.

Option 1 is clearly the way to go. That's what the octopus is for.

Originally Posted by loads of others

yada yada yada

In BSAC there is the rule of thirds. We come out with a third of the tank for just this eventuality. If, at the worst possible moment, one's buddy has no gas we have enough to get us and them home.

Originally Posted by Phideaux

By the way, my original question was as a survey - who has experienced OOA?

I was diving with a Stephane a Frech Canadian chap in Barbados who didn't read his gauge properly and I had to donate my octopus. Everything went smoothly with no panic. The "rescue diver" was a bit pissed that I'd rescued my buddy - apparently he's supposed to do that.

We dived together again later in the week. I took the piss out of him a bit and everything was fine.

[russthedude]

Originally Posted by TerryH

Just read this, so apologies for delay.

Not being smug, just dont get these "what if" questions that are prefectly
preventable.

I get headaches when I bang my head on the wall.

Awnser 1: Take Neurofen
Awnser 2: Dont bang your head on the wall.

answer 3: get a softer wall???