Dive skills and inconsequential drivel

[markg]

<font color='#000F22'>here you go wl
didn't mean to disrupt the thread, sorry

[And]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

So is your question about c cards collectors, my decision to go back to basics and learn to dive properly, or how much experience you need to become a BSAC dive leader?

Kindest Regards

WL

[markg]

<font color='#000F22'>just think all those cards in a relativley short space of time doesn't allow time for proper experience that's all

[And]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

The cards or courses I have attended don't really 'qualify' me to do anything, in fact in my view I took them to gain experience from other divers in other clubs. The exception is Nitrox which is a weekend of lectures and dives to qualify for 50% mix, which in terms of equivalent Nitrox courses is probably more demanding. Two people failed the course I was on because they couldn't deploy an DSMB in midwater properly.

Another reason is that BSAC courses are extremely good value for money, usually less than £50 and they hold them regularly across the country. At the same time some of the courses give exemptions for certain parts of the Dive Leader and Advanced Diver qualification and that was another reason. I would agree with you that it is quite easy to progress to the higher levels of qualification but I don't set the standards. I always figured I'd get the courses and qualifications out of the way and then dive with no restrictions. I suppose the most important reason is that I LIKE doing courses. I  meet other divers, always learn something new and relearn stuff I've forgotten. I think its good to do as many courses as you can, especially if they're so readily available like BSAC

Experience is a term which is hard to define objectively. To one person I am inexperienced but to another my experience is adequate. Looking through the profiles and working out average dives per year I'm probably in the upper quartile of active divers. I haven't broken any rules or agency policies, just jumped through the right hoops. I am experienced enough to know I have a lot to learn and not to be complacent about my diving.

Kindest Regards

WL

[markg]

<font color='#000F22'>fair comments wl
i just don't agree with the way people can qualify without the relavant experience. i believe you should have the experience before you get the card.

[And]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

In a lot of ways I agree. But then you end up in a catch22. You can't get the experience before you do the course, you can't do the course until you've got experience. The level of experience is also set by people who have no idea whether you are a quick learner or slow learner so to find the right balance you must displease everybody, which isn't to good for the holiday diver who just wants a dive on holiday. I also think we tend to set our own limits and then judge people by our own perceived limitations, not intentionaly but we do all the same.

I don't really know what the solution is Mark. We can only try to be better divers and improve continuously. Personally I do that on all my dives, very self critical and ask my buddy for feedback on the dive.

HTH

WL

[Mark Chase]

<font color='#000F22'>WL

Sorry if you felt that I was atacking you personaly, that was not my intent. I was atacking the accepted practice of teaching DL or DM grade to diver with limited experiance.

I think it is wrong

I think divers should have a qualifieing number of dives within a given period to take on the responsibuility of the qualification goals.

Diving is a bit like driving a car. Experiance comes with a level of exposure to the real world. Most insurance companies agree with me. Whilst there may be brilliant drivers who can do it in X hours and terrable drivers who have been driving for 20 years, it is generaly fair to say that experiance is king and that new drivers tend to have more accidents than experainced ones.

Personaly I found it iritating to have to do the decompression procedures course to enable me to go for trimix as I had done a lot of accelorated deco diving on the back of my Advanced Nitrox ticket but I accepted that it had to be done. I question the benifit of doing the DL or DM course for any other reasion than actualy preforming the task of organising and leading dives. A task that should IMHO only be undertaken by very experianced divers.

I am not singling you out for criticisum and I agree that all courses are of benifit if they are well taught. I just dont like the PADI BSAC system of qualification..

You should be pleased to see me having a go at them for a change rather than DIR &nbsp;

Chill out M8 your getting far too up set about this. Your posts are ardent and provocotive, (rather like my ones at times) and your going to take some flack. That said your obviously a pasionate and dedicated diver with points to make and questions to ask so your OK in my book.

ATB

Mark Chase

[MATTBIN]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I think divers should have a qualifieing number of dives within a given period to take on the responsibuility of the qualification goals.

Mark, like all good ideas this one is simple, but I believe a really good one. Perhaps there should be a minimum time period as well, so even if diver A does his qualifying dives in two weeks he still wont get the quals.

Matt

[RobK]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (MATTBIN @ June 02 2003,12:34)]

Mark, like all good ideas this one is simple, but I believe a really good one. Perhaps there should be a minimum time period as well, so even if diver A does his qualifying dives in two weeks he still wont get the quals.

Matt

All good ideas, the real problem is, how to police them.

Most qualifications you can get, have a minimum number of dives that must be done before you can take them. Problem is of course that shear volume of diving isn't the only thing that has an impact on diving ability.

As an example, how long does it take to rack up 100s of dives in an inland pit. I could go to Horsea (just down the road from me) with my buddy and easily rack up 5 or more dives in a day. Would that make me a much better diver? Probably not. I think that the only real way to determine ability is not with numbers but with being made to demonstrate what you can do.

I do agree that it's easy to do lots of courses and rack up lots of certs. This isn't necessecarily a bad thing IMO as long as the person doing the courses uses them for what they are, a starting point to learning rather than an ending one.

Cheers,
Rob.

[markg]

<font color='#000F22'>why not use minimum time spent underwater rather than number of dives ?