pass criteria for various diving exams

[lv929]

I am an academic by profession and I often see very low exam marks but people still get their degrees etc. However I was thinking about dive exams where the knowledge saves your/other peoples lives. Here's the point....

I know people who have passed Padi exams, and then Nitrox and IANTD Advanced Nitrox. In the exams they have failed nearly every single question about dive planning, i.e. the stuff that saves lives. In detail: they failed all the questions with a mathematical content. Yet they got the requisite 75% or whatever. This is not a slur on them and I'm sure its common, (and they do not read this site), but is there maybe a case for making passing some of the questions compulsory, or even a 100% pass mark.

Hope I'm not treading in dangerous water, I'm still a newish diver but wonder what you think?

[Paddy Diver]

Interesting point alright about the maths side of things, I cant see it having a hug eeffect of rec air diving but definately adv. diving alright.

As for the 100% pass rate I think thats a bit extreme

[lv929]

yes I think 100% rate is a bit extreme too, but these guys can't plan a dive on Nitrox because they can't do the sums. They even have trouble working out their RMV at various depths.....

[daz]

Originally Posted by lv929

yes I think 100% rate is a bit extreme too, but these guys can't plan a dive on Nitrox because they can't do the sums. They even have trouble working out their RMV at various depths.....

Well a good instructor will identify any areas of weakness based on the answers in the exam and spend extra time going over the answers with them AND ensuring they understand the sections they may have a weakness in.

This is not actually optional but part of the standards that the instructor should follow in the PADI system (and I assume the other agencies).

So achieving the required pass rate is just part of the overall requirement,

Daz

[Janos]

If I'm invigilating an exam and someone fails every tables question then I would sit down with them until I was satisfied that they could plan a dive safely. Some people are mathematically challenged (I have a friend who will make mistakes when adding up the numbers on two dice) but I don't think you can sign someone off if you're not confident in their ability.

Janos

[Ian@1904]

I know several "mathematically challenged" instructors, this is not a slur, nor are they on YD to the best of my knowledge, they genuinely struggled with the maths. However before they could confidently teach the subject they had to go away and drum it into their heads, so to speak. These guys had the right approach, they are all competant teachers these days.
I also came across a novice diver unable to grasp the basics of the BSAC88 tables, he was really scary. He never passed Ocean Diver with us - 4 fails on the exam. I suspect that some people should go and find another interest.
I agree that there are some issues that really really have to be understood, using tables cannot be learnt parrot fashion. We can all make mistakes in doing the calculations-especially in the pressure of an exam. But that is where we take time out afterwards to go over things.
So when it comes to tables I would expect examinees to get at least 3 out of 4 correct, which is suspiciously close to the typical pass marks required.
Divers also need a reasonable amount of common sense, very useful in answering diving questions.

[applepie]

added on is some of the exams, the answers are abit rubbish when they deal with different scenarios. i cant remember some of the exact exams, I remember a few popped up in the DL exam ummm 1-2 years ago? IIRC, when we sat and discussed them

I forgot what the pass rate was but in our club I am sure its more than 75%? I think it was around 80-85% at least and yes you had to get particular questions right (using tables and key safety ones).

oh yeah dunno if its just me, but I tend to forget somethings (more "indepth" theory stuff) as well so I review my notes and instructing helps as well to stay sharp.

[Nick Kay]

A couple of comments...

As the boss of a recent IFC said

"there are no bad students, only bad instructors"...

so, if a course is getting high number of failures in a particular area, then:
1. look at the content
2. look at the delivery
Then work out how to restructure the lesson, break it down into smaller, more manageable chunks, etc
We were having problems with the Maths in the BSAC Nitrox course, so we changed the way we delivered the information, (no pressure on the people doing the course this weekend) and we now most students get 90%+. In fact, I'd go as far as saying most students tend to get 100% / 1or 2 Qs incorrect (and thats because they don't read the question...)

[Lazlo]

Just for reference - the PADI instructor manual doesn't actually specify any particular "pass" rate. IIRC it says that the student must perform to the instructor's satisfaction, gives some guidelines, and then suggests that 75% would be an appropriate score.

So as others have said already - it's down to the instructor. If they failed all the RDP / planning questions I would want to be going through that section again with them.