Shut-downs - Slob knobs rule OK

[Bob Cooper]

Good post Mark

The fact is that (as Dave says) if you can reach the 2nd vertibrae, you can reach your valves, period.  If you can't reach your valves, blame your drysuit, undersuit, harness etc. don't invert your tanks, it's like treating the symptoms, rather than the cause of the problem.

When I started diving double tanks I had some trouble reaching my valves (I think everybody does). I just practiced alot and did some stretching exercises.  It worked for me.

Inverted tanks and slobnobs really do create more problems than they solve.  The simple solution (like with most things) is to practice, practice, practice. For some reason divers seem to be reluctant to accept this.

Let the flame wars begin......!

Bob

[andy2tanx]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bob Cooper @ Dec. 03 2003,20:17)]Inverted tanks and slobnobs really do create more problems than they solve.  

such as...

[daz]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bob Cooper @ Dec. 03 2003,20:17)]
Let the flame wars begin......!
Bob

OK flame on....

Ummm as Andy says above.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]The fact is that (as Dave says) if you can reach the 2nd vertibrae, you can reach your valves, period.  If you can't reach your valves, blame your drysuit, undersuit, harness etc. don't invert your tanks, it's like treating the symptoms, rather than the cause of the problem.

Or it could be considered an alternative to sticking with a system that is based on a historical twin hose setup, that requires regular repetition and practice to perform shutdowns quickly.

Shutdowns are IMHO easier and quicker on inverts than on non inverted cylinders (and under a stressful situation, this can be critical).

I accept that there are complications with inverted cyliders, such as valve guards, custom hoses (maybe) - therefore cost (And let's be fair, you DIR guys cannot honestly critisise additional cost, can you   )  However can anyone deny that inverted cylinders reduce the risk of entanglement.

Daz

(Nice post Mark,  Andy, Dave, Bob lets discuss   )

[David Wallace]

Mark,
Loads of words in your post.....

Fact is, if you need to shut down the centre isolation valve inverted or not you need to be able to reach it! Upright - there is a reason you cant and most of the time this will be down to another aspect of your configuration - inverted - well lets ignor the reason, invert and then you are guarenteed to need a slob knob.
I'm overweight, need excercise, smoke and drink to much and have NEVER had a problem reaching the isolation valve in practice or when the real thing happens.
I see hundreds of people on my boat each year and have never ever met anyone who said they could not reach the valve that still could not after some kit reconfiguration

Fix the cause not the effect

Regards

David

[daz]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Skipper @ Dec. 03 2003,22:12)]inverted - well lets ignor the reason, invert and then you are guarenteed to need a slob knob.

Really !!

Um.. Actually I have to disagree.  I invert, I can reach the isolator valve with either hand easily.   I have a valve guard and the isolator valve is facing inwards.

It's as easy as scratching my ar...  Umm I think you know what I'm saying  

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Fix the cause not the effect

Or be willing to try different methods, you may find a better way of doing things...  Anyway just going for a smoke,  anyone got 2 sticks to rub together  

Daz

[David Wallace]

Daz,
Just in case your under some mis-apprehention I own a ex police diving team inverted twinset.


Regards

David

Ps two sticks works, when was the last time you tried it

[daz]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Skipper @ Dec. 03 2003,22:37)]Daz,
Just in case your under some mis-apprehention I own a ex police diving team inverted twinset.


Regards

David

Ps two sticks works, when was the last time you tried it

Just don't tell me you are converting them to be the wrong way up  

Daz

(Actually confession time, never tried the 2 sticks thing unless you count striking 2 swan vestas together   )

[Gavin Yates]

<font color='#000F22'>Here we go again FFS ...

Someone says &quot;I do it this way, it works for me.&quot;

Then we see a number of tirades that intimate ... you are wrong, you obviously haven't done this, done that, done the other ... you are misinformed, miseducated, physically inarticulate ...

Why can't you let people do what they want to do?

They are not trying to stop you have your kit, the right way up, upside down, back-to-front, up yer arse ...

Incidently, I have my twins with valves upwards and a manifold but I certainly don't look down on those who either invert or slob-knob.

Rant over but live and let live people ... if you don't like slob knobs or inverts you don't have to dive with them or with the people who choose to.

[David Wallace]

[quote=[b]Quote[/b] (daz @ Dec. 03 2003,22:47)]

Originally Posted by Skipper,Dec. 03 2003,22:37

Daz,

Just don't tell me you are converting them to be the wrong way up  

No, I'm just saying I own and have tried just about every kit configuration. If i havent tried it i have seen it hundreds of times. The concept of not being able to reach the center isolation valve on properly configured kit is almost yes almost unimaginable to me and IMHO reserved to people with unusual phisical attributes.
There is a very good argument for inverted sets for some people, but Most people can, with help, configure std equipment and reach the knobs.
I am not Dir (smoking and drinking) but do believe that a team approch to diving promotes safer diving. Standard equipment configurations go a long way to assisting automated responses to diving emergencys within a diving team or buddy pair.

I know Mark - I dont understand the issue he has with reaching the knobs and therefore dont advocate an alternative approach such as inveted twins.

The only person I see regularly diving with inverted twins was diving with a buddy Commando. Despite about 20 people telling him that it did not matter what he did the commando, it would hold the tanks away from his body and he would not be able to comfortable reach the valves, he insisted in going to the expense of inveting rather than buying a BC/wing which would do the job properly. He does not have a regular dive buddy and you should see the fun and games on the boat as he does a predive check with the people he has never met before.

Oh Sh@t this is getting as long as marks first post.

Off to get some Jack Daniels be back in a mo &nbsp;

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Gavin Yates @ Dec. 03 2003,23:04)]Here we go again FFS ...

Someone says &quot;I do it this way, it works for me.&quot;

Then we see a number of tirades that intimate ... you are wrong, you obviously haven't done this, done that, done the other ... you are misinformed, miseducated, physically inarticulate ...

Why can't you let people do what they want to do?

They are not trying to stop you have your kit, the right way up, upside down, back-to-front, up yer arse ...

Incidently, I have my twins with valves upwards and a manifold but I certainly don't look down on those who either invert or slob-knob.

Rant over but live and let live people ... if you don't like slob knobs or inverts you don't have to dive with them or with the people who choose to.

Agreed, But i was entering &nbsp;and participating a reasoned debate.

What did you add ?