Rescue course

[edward]

Wife an I did our rescue when we had 25ish dives. As 'daveyclayton' said, if your basic skills are OK then go for it as soon as possible - it will be the most useful and enjoyable course you have done so far, although you will be absolutely knackered after the weekend!!!!

Two recomendations though - firstly check out the instructor(s) carefully and if possible get some kind of informal reference from previous trainees, as some take it more seriously than others, e.g. ours insisted that we did six rescue scenarios at the end of the weekend so everyone on the course got to have a go at every role - more than PADI ask for, but excellent training.

Secondly, try and do the the course in a group of four or more, as not only will you meet new people and have more fun, but you'll find the scenarios much easier to manage.

This is also not really a course to do on holiday, as a lot of it is surface swimming, tows etc. Not much actual diving involved, so you would be gutted to go away and spend 2 or 3 days swimming on the surface. Do it here and enjoy your trips abroad!

Don't know where you live, but we did our course with Mike and Stumpy, through divestyle in Reading, and they were excellent, thourougly recomended (and no, I'm not on commission....)

cheers

[darthmoll]

do it as soon as you can, the skills you will learn will help you to be a better diver.

I am suprised that some people seem to feel that only BSAC divers are able to do rescue skills with very little experiance, and its a pity that some people can never seem to post without making some anti PADI comment.

[Dr Stevil]

Originally Posted by darthmoll

I am suprised that some people seem to feel that only BSAC divers are able to do rescue skills with very little experiance, and its a pity that some people can never seem to post without making some anti PADI comment.

Probably because rescue training is included from day one, rather than as something to progress to later. BSAC training includes basic rescue skills in Ocean Diver, which is the OW/AOW equivalent, increasing the skill level gradually over Sport Diver and Dive Leader grades. An OD trainee has to be able to perform a satisfactory CBL, first in a pool, then in open water, before they get their qualification. I believe the same goes for ScotSAC and SAA too so this isn't a BSAC vs PADI issue at all.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by darthmoll

do it as soon as you can, the skills you will learn will help you to be a better diver.

I am suprised that some people seem to feel that only BSAC divers are able to do rescue skills with very little experiance, and its a pity that some people can never seem to post without making some anti PADI comment.

I'm not entirely sure who you are talking about here, but I will answer anyway. I certainly didn't read any of the replies as anti-PADI, and I am PADI trained all the way unitl the last course (Nitrox).

The thing with RD is that you cover an awful lot of very important stuff in a short period of time. Generally there is not much scope for practising each skill more than 3 or 4 times with the instructor. My opinion is that although you would be capable of doing the skills on the day, what you took away with you (what had really, really stuck) would be dependant on just how much of your brain was able to concentrate on the skill, rather than just diving, kitting up, being in the water!

BSAC is totally different. They teach it in stages. There is not as much to grasp in one go and the gentle introduction means that this problem is not encountered. If it is they can go back and do it again another week.

So, it isn't that PADI divers are incapable of doing it, it is that the training is far more intensive and a good grounding can only help you before you go out, thinking you have the required rescue skills only to find you can't remember them 3 months later.

Regards

Lou

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Lou

So, it isn't that PADI divers are incapable of doing it, it is that the training is far more intensive and a good grounding can only help you before you go out, thinking you have the required rescue skills only to find you can't remember them 3 months later.

Regards

Lou

Oh dear. I fear I started it. SORRY.

I am not anti-PADI the opposite if owt. What I said was its the ONE bit of BSAC I think is better.....

My point was to suggest that PADI Rescue is the point at which you are a qualified diver, OW and AOW are really diver in training. Kinda, sorta, if you know what I mean.

There have been a number of threads on Scubaboard about this recently and its the qualifications or certifications level that I was thinking about not the actual training. Lots of people have queried the value of AOW.

Maybe I got confused between the boards or maybe I didn't emphasise enough the PLEASE DO NOT START the PADI vs BSAC crap.

Sorry again.

Have a nicer day.

Chris

PS I think some very good advise in the postings above. Hope it answers your query.

[Cheaperhols]

Hi
Very good points raised, but try and do the rescue course in the Open water and not in some puddle, as running up a beach to reach the phone is far more fun as i trying to put your fins on while clambering over a rocky beach or being pushed around by the waves.
Oh and try to keep your water fitness levels up, this is the best Padi course by far, so good luck and well done for going for it...

Kevin

[Woz]

Have never done a PADI course as I'm BSAC trained but IMHO the very best way of keeping on top of your rescue skills is to practice by teaching others- in a BSAC club I am teaching week in, week out and there is nothing better to hone your own skills than teaching someone else, especially some of the numpties we get as you have to sort it out in your own head fully before you can teach someone else. Plus if you have someone who is really struggling, it forces you to break down the skill into ever smaller steps so they can learn progressively.
Now I'm not saying that one course or organisation is better than another but as has already been said in a previous post, keeping well practiced in these skills is something we all ought to do once the course is completed.
I try and do a little something most dives- whether it is a shutdown, blob fire or playing at 10m breathing off someone elses reg for a while- if you can do it unstressed then when you have to do it for real it will be far more natural.

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by Lou

I'm not entirely sure who you are talking about here, but I will answer anyway. I certainly didn't read any of the replies as anti-PADI, and I am PADI trained all the way unitl the last course (Nitrox).

The thing with RD is that you cover an awful lot of very important stuff in a short period of time. Generally there is not much scope for practising each skill more than 3 or 4 times with the instructor. My opinion is that although you would be capable of doing the skills on the day, what you took away with you (what had really, really stuck) would be dependant on just how much of your brain was able to concentrate on the skill, rather than just diving, kitting up, being in the water!

BSAC is totally different. They teach it in stages. There is not as much to grasp in one go and the gentle introduction means that this problem is not encountered. If it is they can go back and do it again another week.

So, it isn't that PADI divers are incapable of doing it, it is that the training is far more intensive and a good grounding can only help you before you go out, thinking you have the required rescue skills only to find you can't remember them 3 months later.

Regards

Lou

Thanks for answering; I see it as anti PADI when a diver is advised not to do RD training, until they have done more dives. I know that a properly trained PADI AOW diver is ready to do the RD course, and will have the same amount of information retention as any club trained diver that does not practice their skills.

If you are a PADI trained diver, how can you be sure about the level of training any BSAC divers get? I think it depends on the instructor, and has nout to do with PADI/BSAC/SSAC.

When I was taught by BSAC to rescue, it was very intense with lots of things going on and when I passed it was never mentioned again until I got to the next level.

It is not only BSAC instructors that make their students redo skills and come back next week or whenever, no student should pass any PADI course until they can demonstrate mastery of each skill, that’s straight from the manual.

PADI also introduce rescue skills in a planned, modular way, and again until the instructor is happy that the student has mastery they can’t start the next module.

For the record I think it is a mistake that PADI doesn’t teach underwater rescue at OW level, and if I had my way all students would do a controlled lift from 12 meters followed by EAR, and a kit strip and landing the casualty.

Also for the record I am a BSAC AD, and a PADI MI

[Simon TW]

If you feel comfortable in the water then do the course, It was the best course that I have done, I enjoyed it, I found it physically tiring, it made me a better and safer diver and now I am more aware of how to prevent a situation.

Do it you will enjoy it.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by darthmoll

Thanks for answering; I see it as anti PADI when a diver is advised not to do RD training, until they have done more dives. I know that a properly trained PADI AOW diver is ready to do the RD course, and will have the same amount of information retention as any club trained diver that does not practice their skills.

OK, this was just from my experience, watching the other divers on the RD course that I went on. I felt that some of the other divers, generally those with minimal experience, although completing the individual tasks competently struggled when they had to put them into practise on the final rescue scenario.

Originally Posted by darthmoll

If you are a PADI trained diver, how can you be sure about the level of training any BSAC divers get? I think it depends on the instructor, and has nout to do with PADI/BSAC/SSAC.

When I was taught by BSAC to rescue, it was very intense with lots of things going on and when I passed it was never mentioned again until I got to the next level.

I bow to your experience. I guess my point was that there are usually greater time pressures with PADI. Again, I accept that it comes down to the instructor (and I have had training by both good and bad) but when you are in a big group the timetable is defined for the weekend and you can fail or pass - there is little scope for repeating and repeating skills within the same session.

Originally Posted by darthmoll

It is not only BSAC instructors that make their students redo skills and come back next week or whenever, no student should pass any PADI course until they can demonstrate mastery of each skill, that’s straight from the manual.

PADI also introduce rescue skills in a planned, modular way, and again until the instructor is happy that the student has mastery they can’t start the next module.

This has not necessarily been my experience, although this is a sign of a bad instructor the pressures are probably greater on a PADI instrcutor, working for a school/shop.

Originally Posted by darthmoll

For the record I think it is a mistake that PADI doesn’t teach underwater rescue at OW level, and if I had my way all students would do a controlled lift from 12 meters followed by EAR, and a kit strip and landing the casualty.

Also for the record I am a BSAC AD, and a PADI MI

I would agree entirely with you on this. There is little reason not to include some rescue skills at OW. It would be better even if there could be some differentiation in the PADI course structure for those intending to dive as a serious hobby, compared with those who only want a ticket for occasional or holiday diving. This would allow for rescue skills on the heavy duty path at an earlier stage.

Once again this is not a slating of PADI. I think that I have come out of the programme a repsonsible and moderately capable diver. I would still stand by my assertion that taking your training slow and easy, rather than rushing from one ticket to the next is a good way to help that happen.

Regards

Lou