PADI Shark Diver Awareness ?

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by RubberBoy

I don't know what is most worrying about things like this. The fact that someone obviously thinks they will get away with it or the fact that there are mugs out there that will cough up for it.
The crazy thing is that will most of these specialities once accepted is that the guy teaching it generally doesn't know anything about it either having just done a short course or read the course material themselves.
Still, they say a fool and his/her money are easily parted.....

I think I'm right in saying that once granted a "Distinctive Specialty" it may only be taught by the Instructor who submitted it, it is not even acceptable for the same dive shop to teach it using a different Instructor.

The scam one here is "Pearl Diver", you get dragged along between 3-5m picking up oysters and you get to take them away and see if you have any pearls. They even made a guy I know buy a compass as they declared it was necessary equipment.

Ian

[DIVE BUDDHA]

i for one can honestly say i did my p.a.d.i ow training abroad and wholeheartedly believe that an instructor can only teach the basdic skills of which u as a student must build on !! if people think its easy to learn abroad think again !! my instructor put me through my paces .and i can remeber at the time thinking bloody hell this is hard so on passing my ow i felt a great level of achievment and on my return to greece this year i dove with the same company and i was not disapointed with the level of service i got from them !!! but i can well imagine that there are poor instructors and good instructors just like any walk of life im just glad ive never had a bad instructor yet !!!!!!!

[Mark Davies]

We seem to have two issues under discussion here - PADI specialities and PADI bashing in general!

I think the specialities phenomena is easily explained. The biggest problem with PADI training (and the reason behind its commercial success) is that it takes place outside a club environment. A new diver generally has no contact with any other divers except for their instructor and fellow students at the same level. Once certified, they want to go diving but find they have no-one to dive with. So what do they do? Sign up for a course, and then another, and another. I think that's why there is a demand for these things. After I was certified I managed to tag on with the instructor for a few training trips, but it soon became clear I was considered to be in the way (or at least it was made clear to me when I made it clear I wasn't prepared to pay for any more courses!). After that I hardly dived for two years (until I found YD!).

As for PADI standards in general - yes of course it does depend on the instructor, but each diver has a personal responsibility as well. A lot is said about the poor quality of resort divers, and this will be based of our experiences of divers trained in warm conditions them coming diving in the UK. Not all bad, by any means. It depends on attitude. PADI says people should only dive in the conditions they were trained in - if they go anywhere else they should get local orientation and additional training if required. How many people actually do this?

Someone has already mentioned a UK waters speciality, and I think it's a good idea. A combined course to include peak performance bouyancy in a dry suit, DSMB deployment, techniques for use in low viz (such as reeling off and buddy lines) and education on redundant air sources, such as pony bottle use. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the system is open for any instructor to design their own speciality courses and submit them to PADI for approval? It seems to me that UK instructors are missing out on an opportunity, as this would be one speciality truly worthwhile doing. I would even have paid for it!

[John N]

Iani, you're absolutely right about the new instructor sticking to standards. More experienced instructors are sometimes surprised when new standards are taught in front of them. Sometimes they haven't kept up to date with the changing requirements of the courses.

As for the distinctive speciality, it is instructor specific although I guess you could apply to teach it if you wanted. The best ones eventually become standard specialities.

Mark, the topic on clubs has come up before and it's not always the case.
My lds, Dive 69 have a club attitude with weekly pool sessions, dives etc. PADI clubs are around.

I think the problem with a UK speciality is that it would be a very long and expensive course. You would be combining existing specialities such as Dry Suit, PPB, Wreck perhaps, Boat perhaps and so on.
Perhaps a 'safety equipment & procedures' speciality would be better? You could include the use of DSMBs, redundant air sources, lines etc. This would be more in-keeping with the modular design of the speciality courses.

[Mark Davies]

Originally Posted by John Nortcliff

I think the problem with a UK speciality is that it would be a very long and expensive course. You would be combining existing specialities such as Dry Suit, PPB, Wreck perhaps, Boat perhaps and so on.

Then could it not be split into the five separate specialities that you'd do for Master Scuba Diver? So the course structure of OW, AOW, RD and then MSD would have a UK specific content that even the most stringent BSAC advocates couldn't turn thier noses up at. If I thought it would be that useful, I'd even consider progressing past RD. It's a money earner for the instructors and would only do good for PADI's reputation in the UK.

Lots of the elements are already in existence (wreck and boat for instance, as you pointed out, and perhaps nitrox). It's just the gaping holes that always attract attention (DSMB, redundancy, low viz,) that need addressing with new courses.

I see a profitable gap in the market!

[Fathoms Down]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

It's just the gaping holes that always attract attention (DSMB, redundancy, low viz,) that need addressing with new courses.

If you learn with PADI in the Uk then you will be trained in and used to low vis and the water temperature. As for redundancy, that is covered in OW and the Uk instructors may place a little more emphasis on it. The only thing that PADI don't teach is DSMB deployment but I doubt you would really need to have a course dedicated to it.

The thing to remember is that PADI put an emphasis on diving in conditions which you are familiar with and tell divers to seek some local knowledge when it comes to an area they they are not used to. Very sensible advice in my view.

[Mark Davies]

Originally Posted by Nick Bown

The thing to remember is that PADI put an emphasis on diving in conditions which you are familiar with and tell divers to seek some local knowledge when it comes to an area they they are not used to. Very sensible advice in my view.

Well yes, but my point in my earlier post was "Who bothers?" and I think that's where PADI can fall down.

I was PADI trained in the UK so was used to the conditions, but the vast majority of PADI certified UK resident divers have done their training abroad on holiday. I'm regularly approached by people who know I dive and ask where they can hire or borrow kit so they can dive here. When we start talking about their experience and what they expect from UK conditions it's clear they are totally unprepared. Some will seek the proper advice and training (plenty of good examples on these boards) but many others will just go to a shop, buy the kit and jump in the water with no idea what to expect or how to deal with it. I feel it's these divers that give PADI training its bad reputation.

It's all well and good saying that PADI tell you to get local orientation and only dive in conditions as good as you train in, but they have absolutely no control over this. We all know it doesn't work like that. We might look at BSAC structures and what appear to be proscriptive levels of control over their member's diving, but at least they ensure that when diving with BSAC, none of their members are doing anything beyond their abilities.

[DIVE BUDDHA]

i for one am not a great believer in the club system be it padi or bsac as i would rather dive with people who i can get on with not just get on with someone because they are in a club and as for other points in previous posts in this thread i would have loved to have seen stuff like redundancy and dsmb deployment maybe even some kind of basic dryduit training which would have been great .i only learnt to dive when i dove in this country,also being surrounded by highly qualified technical divers who i spent a lot of time with as a relative novice and picked up some great tips as well as bad habbits ???then gradualy going through deep and nitrox courses and dry suit training which was excelent looking back i would not have changed any way ive trained or done stuff but padi need to address a few areas within its training criteria???

[Fathoms Down]

Originally Posted by Mark Davies

We might look at BSAC structures and what appear to be proscriptive levels of control over their member's diving, but at least they ensure that when diving with BSAC, none of their members are doing anything beyond their abilities.

Without wanting to sound anti-BSAC, I'm afraid I have come across several incidents where BSAC divers have dive outside their training, sometimes under the full view of their DO! The problem is that people are individuals and will do as they want to. The best thing a club or agency can do it provide them with the skills and information they need and hope they make their own mind up in a safe way. Remember, diving is a bit like crossing the road; it doesn't matter who taught you, how or when, its you who have to make the descision when and where to cross every time you come to the curb.

[DIVE BUDDHA]

good point nick !! i also have heard conversations relating to divers diving well ouside there qualification limmits both padi and bsac but it all comes down to personal responsibility at the end of the day