'The Illinois' - A Stroke's Tale

[And]

Hi

Again, glad you had a good time and are OK (well, apart from the soiled nappy eeeewwww!!). Theres no point in adding insult to injury so I won't. A decent dive buddy would have negated most of the problems. Seems a bit weird to me not knowing your buddy before such a dive and then being buddied with a rebreather diver. When you had posted about the trip earlier I though it was more of a team effort.

Interesting the problems the CCR guy had. One to note for the would be inspiration divers. Was it one or two dives out of four he managed? Did he explain about his decision to call the dive short and why he didn't tell you what his dive plan was?

Kindest Regards

Andy

PS They're still bounce dives you know, as are ALL ocean dives

[Mark Chase]

Quote[/b] (wetlettuce @ Aug. 22 2003,22:05)]

Quote[/b] ]Theres no point in adding insult to injury so I won't. A decent dive buddy would have negated most of the problems.

You are totaly corect and I missed Andrew very much

Quote[/b] ]Seems a bit weird to me not knowing your buddy before such a dive and then being buddied with a rebreather diver.

I knew John well and he is a very compitent diver. He is also a diver who preferes solo diving so when a diver droped out leaving odd numbers he was sent in solo and the buddy teem was revised. This was the pre arranged plan. I was buddied with CCR man because I knew a little about the mechanics of diving the unit.

Quote[/b] ]When you had posted about the trip earlier I though it was more of a team effort.

Yes me too. To be fair there was teem work in the deployment of the deco station and the detachment of the station but personaly I thaught the system was flawed but I was way too low down on the diver rankings to be able to alter such a well used system so it stayed as is. The divers all helped each other with the last groups kitting up the first in etc and there was a lot of group spirit on the boat especialy with gas fills and humping 32 cylinders on and off the boat and up to the dive shop.

The trouble with plans is that the smallest thing can screw them up. Johns kit failure on day one, another diver spliting a kneck seel on day two both ment reverting to back up plans. John and I had planned matching gas and 40min bottom times. Pete and Lesley were the only other divers on 40min bottom times and that ment al contingancy planns would have mis matched profiles ranging from 20 - 40mins.

Quote[/b] ]Did he explain about his decision to call the dive short and why he didn't tell you what his dive plan was?

We agreed a dive plan of 30mins on the surface and I would have stuck with that but we also agreed that if I was having a good dive and felt good I would take him back to the shot and then go my own way, which is what hapened. I would have gone up on 30 but 20 was way too short for me and didnt even fit with my deco tables as my 20min plan was bassed on emergancy profiles so I would have had to rely totaly on the VR3 or just pad out the bail out tables.

Quote[/b] ]Interesting the problems the CCR guy had. One to note for the would be inspiration divers. Was it one or two dives out of four he managed?

Dive one no problems

Dive two 3ltr bail out tank fell off its mounting clamp on the side of the CCR unit on water entry. Dive canned as he was also feeling stressed and sea sick and this was the last straw. He had already indicated that if he didnt feel good he would can the dive on the 6m bubble stop.

Dive three: Unspecified problems with the CCR unit which he sorted on the boat  and eventualy got in and did a 20min profile.

He didnt want to do the drift so didnt do dive 4


As Mark pointed out it says it all in the title. The trip went well but did not go acording to plan. There was not enough depth of experiance in the teem to cover the deviation from plan A. It could have been a total disaster for me if I was not willing to solo dive but as it turned out it was fine. This was the first deep trimix trip for this group of divers. Pete pointed out that his regular group never have these sort of problems but thats because they have been diving as a teem for years. (and CCR's are banned from the group but I dont know if thats a big thing). I firmly beleive that our little group is now battle hardened and that our next trip will be better organised and smoother running.

Lets hope so

ATB

Mark Chase

[Mark Chase]

Quote[/b] (malcolm smith @ Aug. 22 2003,21:51)]I've very recently done the intro trimix and I am genuinely interested in how others plan and execute these dives.

All the best, Malcolm.

Hi Malcolm

If you want specific information on some aspects of the dive, like station set up and gas profiles then contact me off line as the info might be a bit tedious for someone not actualy planning this sort of thing.

Beleive it or not many hours of preporation went into this little effort.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Gavin Yates]

<font color='#000F22'>Mark,

A facinating report and it's refreshing to read a diver being self-critical in retrospect.

I think you should applaud yourself on being able to rescue a situation to make 4 good dives. Well done.

Obviously there will be those who carp and complain but as they weren't there then they would do so from a distinct disadvantage.(Not you WL - a considered and supportive post from you I thought.)

I hope on future dives the team will get better luck and everything will go swimmingly, however, as we all know mistakes make great learning points.(as long as they are not fatal!)

Honestly, I think a brief round up of the tables that you used and your stops would be of general interest.

PS I hope the suit smells better now!!

[wolf_fishy]

I will add some stuff from the CCR perspective. &nbsp;Although it seems that the CCR diver binned a few dives, that is generally unusual. &nbsp;I took my unit on a two week trip earlier in the year, same set up, deco station etc, not team diving as we all dive solo and we all dive on CCR. &nbsp;

My unit performed PERFECTLY on every dive and I use a VR3 plugged into the unit for real time deco. &nbsp;

We don't generally use strobes on the shot, sometimes someone sticks one on then takes it away. &nbsp; We reel out from the shot that way everyone can find their own way back. &nbsp;We unclip our clips and the last person there knows without doubt that he is the last then he unclips the station.

Team diving requires logistic planning before the dive and everyone to be diving on the same deco software etc. It's all a bit anal. &nbsp;we all solo dive, it's every man for himself and everyone carries their own bailout and tables, everyone jumps in solo, everyone does different bottom times and different deco, &nbsp;we see each other on the wreck and then on the line and then everyone is together on the station at 6m. &nbsp;You can't buddy dive at 75m, you are on your own as far as I'm concerned. &nbsp;there was an open circuit diver a while back I'm told who almost ran out of gas at 75m after getting tangled and he dragged himself and his buddy to the surface, he got paralysed and the buddy went back down alone to deco and was ok. &nbsp;I would never dive with an open circuit diver in a buddy pair at those depths - they simply cannot carry enough gas to save their own life if the shit hits the fan. &nbsp;If someone hasn't got the gear and capability to solo dive at depth then they shouldnt do the dive while relying on a buddy.

[Mark Chase]

OK for those that are interested this is what we did. I am NOT saying its the way to go it is what we chose but not the gosple

First things first:

Safety kit

2 X Marinox 100% o2 kits with constant flow valves
2 X 10ltr drop tanks with 80 and 100% in pre riged with    
     regulator, floatation buoy and 6m rope.

Every diver had a Yellow lost gas blob and the protacol was drilled before the dives began

Every Diver had a strobe to mark the bottom of the shot and a clip to mark the 12m loop on the deco stage. This was again drilled before the dive

Task loading was kept to a minimum by tasking the dive teems so first in tied in the shot second teem cliped in the station. Third teem checked station deployment and sorted any problem. Fourth team theoreticly was last out of the water and cut the waster and uncliped the station on ascent.

We had minimum of two Analox 02 testers on board and we had two Helium analisers.

The deco station was a 2.5m bar with two bouys and was set to 6.5m with a 6m lazy shot going down to a waster loop. Should the piston release fail the waster loop could be cut to release the station. Should the last diver forget to unclip the station a second piston clip held the lazey shot to the bar and acted as last resort seporation.

The above was supplied and organised by Pete and Big Dave

Divers decided on their own profiles as we were to ascend the shot and would all eventualy meet on the 6m stop. Any diver not returning to the shot and bagging off was on his own as the boat was instructed to stay with the deco station no matter what. EPERB's were the preferd choice for those venturing away from the shot without reeling off.

The longest bottom time divers went in first to minimise waiting on the station before it was cut free.

My dive plan for the Illinoys:

I used GUE's Decoplanner to plan the dive set on ZHL16B running a 20-85 gradient factor safety off.

Plan was 10 @70m 30 at 65m gas 18/40 trimix 32%
            travel, 80% deco

STOPS: (shown as duration and depth)

1 - 42 Gas switch to 32% at end of stop
1 - 36
1 - 33
1 - 30
2 - 27
3 - 24
3 - 21
5 - 18
6 - 15
9 - 12 Gas switch on ascent to 80% at 10m
11 - 9
47 - 6m

5min ascent to the surface total run 138mins

Tables were cut for plus 5min and minus 5min run times and a 20min bail out plan was cut using 60-90 gradiant factors for a quick exit with 33mins deco.

A Vytec was used as depth and bottom timer and a VR3 was used as the primery computer. The VR3 was set to allow a switch to 100% on the drop tank and a switch to a redundent air supply at 65m

10ltr travel gas was used as a safety precaution and I had over 150bar left after both dives. Deco was on 7ltr stage blown to 200 bar but this was considered adiquate as we had the two available drop tanks of deco mix. both dives used about 130bar of deco gas.

Bottom time was dependent on back gas with imediate ascent to first stop depth on 50bar. As it was I got out of the water with 90bar plus on both dives including ascent to the first gas switch.

SAC was planned at 15 for botom gas and 10 for deco. Actual SAC for both dives was 13 and 12.7 on the botom and about 9 on deco.

Kit for the dives was two 12ltr twin sets pre filled to 260bar
two 10ltr travel stages pre filled
two 7ltr Deco mix pre filled
one 3ltr pony of air

Gas cost £120

The Solsett was done on an air top which was o2 and helium analised  to 20 -9he and dived on a fresh plan cut on a laptop using Decoplanner. 32% Travel was carried as bail out as I was on a solo dive and deco was again on 80%. 40mins on the botom average depth 43m gave a total run time on the VR3 of 92mins including my usual padding on the shallow stops and slow ascent from 6m.  


Thats about it

ATB

Mark Chase

[Gavin Yates]

<font color='#000F22'>Thanks Mark - interesting stuff. Very appreciated mate.

Good luck.

[Andy Phillips]

Mark,

Obviously heard it before but still made me grin and shiver in equal measure.

Malcolm Smith, When you do this sort of diving there is no right or wrong way just a safe way. You plan the dive, work out what can go wrong, plan for that and then expect the one thing you didn't think of to happen.

I have dived more than enough with Mark tp know that all dives are thought through, and in our case usually discussd to bleeding death cos we are both stageringly boring.

WL. All sea dives are bounce dives, balls................. Who ever said that is a flaming idiot, how can anyone describe a dive with a profile of over two hours as a bounce dive. Err that is except saturation divers. I suggest you read less and dive more.

Andrew

Quote[/b] ]You are totaly corect and I missed Andrew very much

ps Mark, &nbsp;I love you too!!!

[Andy Phillips]

WL

Errr sorry mate, done it again, I have a habit of doing this when I am a bit drunk and in a bad mood for some reason. This time I was tired and more than a little cut, plus a row with the missus meant an unnessary post.

Sorry to be rude.

Andrew

[And]

<font color='#0000FF'>No Problem

The reason its called a bounce dive is because you spend a very short time at max depth.

Andy