Dover Seabed - 17 / April

[Lou]

I'm with Elfyn too. I know that Dave (Skipper) really works to ensure that the shot is in and isn't coming free. He would rather divers pulled themsleves down on the line if necessary and hit the wreck, than didn't dare and missed it.

After all, if you are going for a named dive then you really should expect to get it, unless weather or other conditions out of the control of man dictate otherwise.

I would be annoyed at having to pay £15-£25 to dive a seabed when a wreck has supposedly been shotted unless I have willingly agreed to the risk that we may miss it.

I have only had one dive so far where the shot has been dragged off the wreck and none where the skipper has missed. Maybe I, too, have been lucky?

Lou

[Getafix]

Perhaps it was just having Fiona and myself on the boat that jinxed it!


No,you did'nt jinx it,it was just that between shortening the rope,me throwing it,and then making him motor over it a few times checking closely with the sounder we got lucky!!

And he wonders why i had little enthusiasm on Sunday morning? It had nothing to do with the early start!


Edit reply to below: Hmmmmm..........2 duff dives with a bit of a headache during a year with all the good UK diving i do....and both on Taurus....a coincidence? Hardly prone to it.

[MATTBIN]

Andy given that you run a good boat and are listening to your customers' concerns can I suggest two things
1) Go have a practice my old son and make sure you can get a better 'in' ratio than you are currently averaging
2) some sort of refund for a missed dive?

Now I know I havent dived with you much, but I am in for a dive with you in July, the U90 and I want to see that sub real bad as I was blown out all last year everytime I tried to get on her so if the weather is good and you miss her I wont be a happy diver, nor may I suggest will many of the others.

I suspect that all at YD want you to be succesful and stay in the game for ages so we have a good dive operation we can trust, just look at how much Skipper is held in great affection/respect, so help us out here mate and get them shots in

Rgds
Matt

[Angleseyskipper]

i've taught a few people the basics on how too shot a wreck and it really isn't rocket science .
the biggest problem i,ve seen is people rely on plotters but don't really understand how to navigate and end up all over the place trying to reach the waypoint x marks the spot were in theory the wreck is.

the easiest way to start off is to find a non tidal bay and drop a weight and buoy in.
while along side the buoy write down its the position lat/long off the gps on some paper giving you a fixed point to navigate too.
now for the taxing bit,set off away from the buoy and try navigating back to it with the gps lat/long with out looking for it.
obviously someone else needs to keeps watch in case you drive over it!
you need to grasp the concept of compass direction as you steam along in relation to the way the lat/long numbers on the gps go up or down and steer accordingly to return to you original position.
this should be done at slow speed
this is the bit that takes time but most people soon get the hang of it.
most people like to concentrating on one set of numbers at a time untill it becomes second nature to do both.
when you have mastered this you'll be able to navigate to a known position and so in theory be able to find a known wreck.
as for shoting you have the bomb with big heavy weight brigade or like us the grapple brigade.
most people are aware that i don't rate the heavy weight system at all on tidal wrecks as its just not reliable enough i've lost count of the amount of times i've heard stories of seabed dives with this set up.
we have a 5.8m tidal range here of Amlwch so slacks are fairly short on the bigger tides so the grapple needs to go in early so there's no rush when it comes to dive.

so you can navigate to the wreck and see it on the sounder so your most of the way there.

next ya decide which way ya tide runs, with the grapple system steer directly into the tide and towards the wrecks position steam over it picking it up on the sounder and keep going in the same direction till it disappears off the sounder and go a bit further before dropping in the grapple.
the distance you travel past the wreck will depend on the strength of the tide.
you need to give the grapple time to hit the seabed as the tide will allready be pulling it towards the wreck on its decent.
let it hit seabed and hold on to it , the tide will push the boat and grapple back towards the wreck and so hooking into it sorted.
on a strong tidal flow there's no mistaking when its in as it will try and take ya hand with it!
obviously on a windy day depending on its strength and direction this will alter the track on the drift back to the wreck so you have to allow for it at the beginning but this is one thing you learn with time.
so thats basically how we do it
have fun
elfyn

[Andy the Coastie]

Elfyn

I shot wrecks exactly how you have explained.

Last week, i was diving 30 miles offshore with commercial divers doing the wind farm project we are on, this involves being given a Lat & Long of where a hydrographic date collecting frame MAY be there. ( they were in a position that was recorded and marked with a 2 mt diameter buoy with a 3 meter stack holding a light , these were hit by large vessels and taken away from the frames ), the frames measure 1 mt square and stand .6 mt high, and hardly show on the sounders of the 4 boats involved in the project ( each boat has a different make and model of sounders and plotters , gps's ).
A 56 pound clump weight is dropped and normally within 20 minutes the divers has located it , this working in 25 mts depth and ZERO viz, so position accuracy is not a problem.

A commercial diver was the first diver in on the wreck we did today, and when he was at the shot grabbing a bass, he witness the shot being pulled and lifted off the wreck, but he got a turn around the line and held it firmly until the diver was on the wreck, then he made it fast,,,,,,,,, NOW todays shot was a 45 pound CQR anchor with 15 mts of 16 mm chain and 12 mil rope ,, it was discussed after the dive , that the diver that pulled it off was causing to much drag ( twin 12's and a 7 lt stage ) and bad buoyancy , which he admitted to .

Regards to shotline lenght, perhaps each of the wrecks i do, should have it's on line to the lenght of depth plus spring tide difference, some divers like a short tight line , some like about 10 mts extra lenght . I just can't win.

Last dive on the HMS BRAZEN which ended up being a seabed dive , some of it came up on the sounder , which was seen by the divers watching , the shot landed near a sea mine which has always been on the seabed , at 4 & 1/2 mts on her port amidships........ this was seen by a diver , who had today reported it to the MCA, in case further trawling nearby picks it up .

Sub's I must admit are a complele bastard to shot, as the ones i do are intact and nothing really to grapple into , unless i use a 1 ton clump weight . but normally the first divers in are GOOD, and just descend down the line with pulling themselves down ...... I can't see why any diver should pull himself down, wieghted correctly should do it natually for you, just using the line as a guide line.

I've been on dive boats mainly ribs as it's easy for them , who drop the shot and whilst holding onto the line , drift back with the tide, this resulting in to much speed, bringing the shot off the seabed , making it 7 - 10 attempts to get it in correctly........ when you have pulled it up from 35 mts a few times , gets knackering and pisses me off........

I know that when my shots go in ,UPTIDE of the wreck that it is in the wreck, when streaming over it to check , you can see 75 % the bubbles coming off the line leading right into the wreck, perhaps adding another 40 pound in weight to the grapple and chain , might be the thing to do.

My shot is made up of a old 4 lt BA cylinder with the neck cut off, RE-BAR is welded to the chain and placed inside. it's 3/4 filled with lead , topped of concrete making it weigh 41 pound, there are 4 staggered prongs made from RE BAR, welded to the outside, which is a weak weld, designed to break off when stuck in the wreck , these can only come off when connected to the boat and some power is added, the snap off before the line breaks .

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

Now I know I havent dived with you much, but I am in for a dive with you in July, the U90 and I want to see that sub real bad as I was blown out all last year everytime I tried to get on her so if the weather is good and you miss her I wont be a happy diver, nor may I suggest will many of the others.

Thats why I'm going down there a day early, taking the SKIPPER out for a dive and we are gonna place a ' P ' Bobber on it for the weekend.

[Dinger]

I think that this happens to everyone - certainly happened to me loads - not sure about the channel but with the strong tides here its pretty understood that it happens. If some skipper was doing it all the time and didn't try his hardest to get the shot in and was being a lazy sh*te then I would be annoyed but I have never come across a skipper like that so have never been pissed to be honest.

Sure I hate it when I get to the bottom and see sod all but sand but must admit never would ask for a refund and hey there are worse things.

I enjoy getting into the water, being in a boat (love the ocean) just diving in the water does it for me and the craic and giggles. And of course tea and bacon and sausage sandwiches

Dinger

For me it aint just about the wreck

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Getafix

Perhaps it was just having Fiona and myself on the boat that jinxed it!


No,you did'nt jinx it,it was just that between shortening the rope,me throwing it,and then making him motor over it a few times checking closely with the sounder we got lucky!!

And he wonders why i had little enthusiasm on Sunday morning? It had nothing to do with the early start!

WOAAA ,, hang fire there Alan.

NO ONE makes me motor over shot lines . I do that when i'm ready by watching the Buoys. as in Grapple in wreck , slight tide on line , which in turn straightens out the buoys indicating how fast the tide is running.
You KNOW damm well that there are loads of grab points on the Laristan / Pom / Anglia . etc etc etc from being broken up .

Originally Posted by Getafix

And he wonders why i had little enthusiasm on Sunday morning? It had nothing to do with the early start!

Didn't wonder at all, mate ....... As a safe skipper, i thought it was your call not to dive , as i know your prone to after dive head aches and sicky feelings .....

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Lou

I'm with Elfyn too. I know that Dave (Skipper) really works to ensure that the shot is in and isn't coming free. He would rather divers pulled themsleves down on the line if necessary and hit the wreck, than didn't dare and missed it.

I'm not attacking Dave or Elfyn, BUT I personally would not put divers in the water where they have to pull themselves down the line.

1). Up here, if you pull yourself down the line , then the surface tide is ripping like a bast***, and the diver shouldn't be in it.
2). If a diver has to pull himself down a line in SLACK water, then they need to get thier buoyancy sorted out VERY fast.
3). A Dive Instructor with a student that pulls a 60 pound shot off the seabed and meets it at 10 mteters in a max depth of 15 mts, because he FORGOT to let the air out his stab jacket . Thus moving the shot from the seabed navigation course .

Originally Posted by Lou

After all, if you are going for a named dive then you really should expect to get it, unless weather or other conditions out of the control of man dictate otherwise.

I agree, i once paid £ 45 just for the DIVE and dived a pile of shite, BUT at least it was a dive for the log book, but we didn't know that within a few months that it would collapse in on it self after watching a dvd of a divers record of it.

Originally Posted by Lou

I would be annoyed at having to pay £15-£25 to dive a seabed when a wreck has supposedly been shotted unless I have willingly agreed to the risk that we may miss it.

God , where do you do most of your diving . here at Dover i charge £ 15 a dive within 10 miles of the port. Go further down the coast and i have paid £ 35 for a dive, and the wreck has been stripped clean by divers , no wildlife to be seen.......Just a pile of scrap metal in some reasonable viz....... But i go and pay , coz like Dinger has said , it's a day out away from the pressures of running a charter boat or commie diving.

This is the beginning for most divers diving in this area, and I have been diving wrecks that i like thoughtout the winter, some of the ones that have been visited latey have detoriated over the winter IN A BAD WAY. I have been out checking / plotting wrecks at my own expense, which is more than what most pay for a winter dip in some muddy 20 mt puddle.

Originally Posted by Lou

I have only had one dive so far where the shot has been dragged off the wreck and none where the skipper has missed. Maybe I, too, have been lucky?

I wish i can say that out of diving and boating since 1980.

[Paul Oliver]

Paul on Offshore Rebel used to miss a lot as well and he had an excellant setup.

Now me, i gets them down the funnel every time But then i just hold the Rhib over the top of it all the way through the process, and we only use a small anchor and about 2m of chain.